Carnelian @ Carnelian @lemmy.world

Posts

6

Comments

500

Joined

2 yr. ago

Well, you can hardly call it “uncontroversial” if “so many people” so strongly disagree with your absolutist characterization of an entire medium of art, right? It seems to me to be quite divisive in fact

But I’m intrigued by this, you consider not only games but also shows and movies to be childish indulgences? I think a more reasonable assessment would be that they have the capacity to be such. But what people want to communicate to you is that through these mediums, they’ve experienced powerful artistic catharsis that has improved their lives, and yes, even connected them with and strengthened their relationships with others.

Sure, a child may have all the time in the world to rot their mind in Fortnite. But there is an artistry to experiencing a craft, just the same as there is an artistry to crafting it. Investing in your capacity to be critical of cinematography, as opposed to simply letting the film flash before your eyes. Eventually you learn to tell the difference between reality tv and great works like Twin Peaks.

If you think these differences are simply not present in the medium of gaming then it’s no surprise you touch the nerve of people who have invested in the craft.

In summary, it’s inconsistent with the lived experience of countless millions of others for you to propose that “appreciating a painting” is a valuable use of an adult’s time, but “appreciating interactive art” never can be, and should be discarded as childish.

And as an aside, whether someone only plays games with no other pursuits to the point where their life falls apart is not really relevant to the discussion. Yes, of course that is a terrible and childish way to ruin your life. It would be equally terrible if you stayed up all binging Netflix and lost your job as a result. Once again the issue here is your perspective broadly, and how you are trying to justify it. Not the medium itself.

As a final aside, I’m (obviously) a gamer myself, as well as a multi-instrumentalist. I find creating music and playing games to be similarly enriching. The high level discussions I have with participants between the two mediums are equally thought provoking. It is a great blessing as well that games are so thoroughly intertwined with music, giving me a lot of carryover between the two pursuits.

This is however, essentially the limit of what I can manage to sustain dedication to as an adult. I would also love to get into painting, and read two novels a week, and watch all of history's greatest films, and train for a marathon, and sail around the world, and so on. I have confronted the fact that, having only one life, I will only ever dabble in most of those things, if I am lucky enough experience them at all. But I would never think to myself that the things I have chosen to invest in primarily are inherently superior to the things that bring other people fulfillment. Entertaining thoughts like that would make me feel very childish

Yeah that’s part of what makes games specifically so valuable. It asks a lot of you. You have to meet it where it’s at. You have to muster the energy to be able to appreciate it even when life drags you down. Otherwise you can’t progress.

I obviously don’t know you, and reading books and investing time in your family is obviously great. But to anyone generally, I would say be careful and make sure you advocate for your time and energy. It’s very common for people to fall into a loop of passivity. The audiobook is on in the car but their mind is elsewhere. They endlessly scroll algorithmic slop on their phone without it ever actionably enriching them. They turn on a show at the end of the day just to tune out.

If your life is already full of the experiences that make it worth living, great! Again, I don’t know you. But irl, what I see most often when people complain about not having time for deep passions is that their job drains them, then their responsibilities drain them, then they lay, crushed, letting images on the screen flash by them as the days turn into months. Then somehow years go by and they’re left without the memory of ever living them.

In the midst of this, many people adopt the belief that they’ve simply aged out of participating in deep passions, and the way life slips through their fingers is just the way life is. This is a difficult belief to weed out once it has taken root. Ironically Outer Wilds specifically is a great way to confront this mindset lol

The real issue here is actually just your opinion of games. You consider games to be “sit around dick around” time wasters.

If that’s all it is to you then yeah you’ll naturally find yourself moving on as basically anything else will be more fulfilling.

Games to me are a form of art which have the power to change lives. A medium I’ve been continuing to develop an appreciation for my entire life, alongside other pursuits such as music. As life gets hectic into adulthood I’ve found that games are far more meaningful to me now than ever before.

And I’m not sitting around looking for time to kill. I make time to play because of how restorative and life affirming it is. Games like Citizen Sleeper, Spiritfarer, Outer Wilds, To The Moon, Slay the Princess, Hollow Knight, Eastward, Arctic Eggs. Some experiences stay with you forever, expand the depth of your empathy, and steer your heart towards kindness.

I don’t know what’s gonna happen to you if you try to crank out endless rounds of Call of Duty to the point where it interferes with you taking your dog to the vet. But I’m 100% certain all working adults would benefit from engaging with meaningful art regularly. Be it games, books, film, etc. Whatever strikes you.

Well over 300 hours in BotW here, loved it. It feels a lot more “grounded” in comparison to totk, which feels a lot more “sandboxy” at times. Both great games, just different vibes

I would also say, there were a TON of times in TotK where they riff on previous things from BotW. A lot of the enjoyment I got was the subversion of expectations. In the lead up to the game we all thought they just copy/pasted the map to save time but they actually did a TON of work to it, and it’s very interesting and nostalgic to retread over places that have changed so much.

I would guess your best bet is playing them in order, altho it’s probably fine either way

I agree. Personally I have made multiple amazon accounts and subscribe to prime on each of them. It costs me more upfront, but I get more cash back on my orders. Plus, by buying different raw materials on different accounts the feds are less likely to discover my moonshine operation

You might just be chronically tired or worn down from the stresses of life. It’s pretty common.

Another thing is as we get older a lot of people will choose more “challenging” adult books and then just be totally bored lol. I read young adult and kids books sometimes (how can I give a book to a child if I haven’t read it myself?) and it’s always surprising to me how they can be ripped through in no time at all.

But in general I think you’re probably right that literacy can decrease with disuse. It seems like most things about the mind and body trend that way

It turns out nobody really thinks often enough for you to get any information

Arnold is great lol. He gets invited to comps sometimes still to speak. He literally, while on stage with winners, will roast them for not being able to vacuum.

There are other divisions of bodybuilding where people aim for that 70’s aesthetic rather than the pure mass monster experiments we see in open. Still not the healthiest thing ever but a huge improvement. At the end of the day stepping on stage is just pretty extreme no matter what, with the extreme dieting and water manipulation in the lead up to the show.

*vacuum is a classic bodybuilding pose in which the belly is “sucked in”. Many modern bodybuilders literally cannot suck in their stomachs due to

::: spoiler Tap for spoiler extreme swelling of their internal organs caused by abuse of modern substances.
:::

Oh, your link is broken in the post itself I think

Oh I seem to think you’re a dishonest, instigating time waster, huh? What makes it seem that way, the part where I directly accused you of it?

I'm not sure why you're so resistant to it but I'll just move on.

Oh, sorry yeah I can clear that up.

The reason I don’t feel like dancing for you is because you’re dishonest, aggressively self righteous, and obviously just want to fight about something meaningless for no reason.

Spend the extra forty bucks for something official if you don’t trust used, and don’t start dumb semantic arguments with people if you’re gonna want their help after. Not that I think you really do, mind. Just pointing out how ridiculous that whole pretense is.

Anyway, yeah. Probably is best if you moved along

But ultimately none of this is that high stakes

Been saying that for four comments now lol

Yes consoles are often the more economical choice

This right here is the main idea, yeah, even when looking at the used market for PC components. Glad we found our way back, and even ended up in complete agreement at the end

As for the help you requested sifting through listings, used and refurbished are different things, you should know. Refurbished direct from Sony is $400, looks like gamestop will do it for $370. This sets a hard cap on used prices, so you’ll notice all the used listings (that actually sell) are below that.

You should also know they have websites for you to track what actually sells, and not just the listings that are left standing for a while because the price is mediocre. Worth checking that out so you know where to watch, and have a good chance of getting a good price when it appears. Best of luck to you

And “well below” $300 is not $285-$330

You’re equivocating. In that instance I am responding directly to your claim that it’s far fetched to find a used one around the $300 point.

You’ll notice when you quoted me you also excluded the word “dips”. It’s dishonest for you frame my position as misrepresentative of the market by presenting my numbers without the couching I presented them with.

And why do you want to quibble over $50 when it doesn’t affect the discussion at all? Let’s just work with the higher prices, or even the brand new prices for that matter

Same, yeah I mean once you’re established the actual cost of games on steam is ludicrously small depending on your habits. I’m pretty much locked-in to pc gaming simply for the love of indie titles that more often than not do not get published to consoles. Lots of those games are just straight up free

We also have to consider the value the computer itself serves beyond just gaming. If you’re gonna get a $500 ps5 and you’re already going for an $800-$1200 computer, well hey. You could really get the best of both worlds without affecting the budget. Probably could even save money

But I think there’s also a big group that isn’t in that situation. I know plenty of people who rock like a chromebook and the cheapest xbox. Or people who only play like NBA 2k or something. Or people who play 1-2 big titles a year when they get caught in the hype train, and can enjoy them at 4k60fps for the much lower upfront cost

Why not? Like I said the certified refurbished directly from Sony is $399. Plenty of listings up right now for $285-330

But even if we compare new consoles to used PCs I think the conclusion is the same

Certainly, but we’d then have to compare with the used ps5 market, which dips well below $300.

Can a used pc or a build with used components be had with comparable performance to ps5? Even with a much larger budget of say, $800?

A certified refurbished ps5 can be had right at this moment for $399, $450 new. I game on PC for many other reasons but the performance for value is pretty amazing on the ps5

Oof I’m sorry to hear it, wishing you all the best of luck. I get super nostalgic for online spaces, the idea of getting locked out of somewhere you built memories with friends is really sad

Didn’t skype shut down just this week?

Yeah plenty of people develop these feelings about laser focussed games. Sekiro is a good example. Not gonna be your game if you don’t like parrying. Lots of comments online from such people who write the game off as “spam parry to win” as tho there’s no depth to it.

Huge parry fan on the other hand? Probably your favorite game, and you’re bewildered by those comments because you feel like you could write a novel about how interesting the system is and how rewarding it is to master all the way into your seventh charmless NG+ run.

I think at the end of the day, when the gameplay is simply not catered to our preferences we’re not really going to appreciate what makes it so great at what it is