Blue_Morpho @ Blue_Morpho @lemmy.world

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2,404

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2 yr. ago

You are directing the conversation to anything other than the argument that the ratchet meme is a lie.

You picked Nixon earlier. If it was non stop right wing movement from 1974 with Democrats doing nothing we'd be back at segregation and rivers on fire.

American voters put the right wing in power in all branches of the government. They are the ones turning back the progress that Democrats achieved. The knob is going back and forth. It's not a ratchet.

One person blocking improvement the other does something bad is both sides bad. Using all caps doesn't change that.

Then why did oil production go up under him?

There is a difference between pumping oil from existing wells and wrecking new natural habitats for more oil.

Clean Air Act

Johnson, Democrat 1963. Too long ago to be relevant which is why I mentioned something newer.

Biden championed the crime bill in the 80s that led to mass incarceration.

??? Stopping crime is right wing?

We went from rivers so polluted that they caught fire and acid rain dissolving all public art to mostly clean rivers and air. If it was a ratchet we would have continued to go backwards. We would have gone from no gay marriage to criminalized. We would have gone from one river on fire to most rivers on fire. We would have gone from BLM back to segregation. The Ratchet Meme is a lie.

If I said Republicans generally support racist policies, a reply could be the fact that Lincoln freed the slaves and was a Republican.

Stating facts like that isn't neutral. It's the scientific equivalent of picking out one data point from an entire study to argue against a conclusion.

It gets worse more slowly under the dems, but it still gets worse.

Gay marriage? DEI? Pacific Protected waters? Arctic protected from drilling? It was getting better until Republicans were elected to undo it all. The Rachet Meme is a version "both sides bad" which is what helped Republicans win.

I can’t help but think at this point that we’re reaching comprehension issues…

There is a long list of envitroment, social and political laws that Democrats have championed and have happened. BEACHES act, expanding Pacific protected waters, protecting Artic. In social we have gay marriage now. Democrats did NOT do nothing while Republicans moved things to the right. If that were true there would be no gay marriage. If Hillary had been elected the Supreme Court wouldn't be right wing and Roe v Wade wouldn't have been neutered.

The Ratchet meme is "both sides bad".

the Ratchet Effect

The Ratchet Effect is a "both sides bad" meme. It is provably false.

Beaches Act, Oct 2000 Clinton. Pacific National Monument started by Bush, expanded by Obama. Biden Ban on Artic drilling 2024

Democrats push left. Republican push right. There's no ratchet.

Do you see how, over time, the Republicans move farther and farther to the right on the environment?

And when Democrats have power, they push it to the left. It's not a ratchet. Both sides are NOT the same.

DEI, Roe v Wade, The Environment, etc have all gone right only because voters have given so much power to Republicans to move it right.

Roberto Bolle wins unprecedented 17th championship against King Mouse in the Nutcracker cage match!

At MIT in the 1980's it was called, "Get your fingerprints on the murder weapon."

"And you, young engineer, you who dream of improving the lot of the workers by the application of science to industry - what a sad disappointment, what terrible disillusions await you! You devote the useful energy of your mind to working out the scheme of a railway which, running along the brink of precipices and burrowing into the very heart of mountains of granite, will bind together two countries which nature has separated. But once at work, you see whole regiments of workers decimated by privations and sickness in this dark tunnel - you see others of them returning home carrying with them, maybe, a few pence, and the undoubted seeds of consumption; you see human corpses - the results of a groveling greed - as landmarks along each yard of your road; and, when the railroad is finished, you see, lastly, that it becomes the highway for the artillery of an invading army..."

Peter Kroporkin, 1880

A hundred years later engineers are more jaded. They know what they are doing. At MIT in the 1980's it was called "get your fingerprints on the murder weapon".

For the past 50 years, Democrats have been supporting environmental protection laws and Republicans have been against them.

It is equivalent to compare "But Nixon started the EPA" to "Lincoln ended slavery." That Nixon started the EPA 50 years ago is irrelevant to all the following decades where Republicans have been consistently against the environment. It's no different than when Magas say they aren't racist because of Lincoln.

If it's a straight line from Nixon to Trump as you say, then why claim Republicans are environmentalists with Nixon as your example?

No matter where you go, there you are.

• Buckaroo Banzai

It's also just factually wrong to say, "it was so long ago, its like saying they're the anti-slavery party." Nixon represents the turning point for the Republican party, where they abandoned their support for Civil Rights and embraced the Southern Strategy.

Those two sentences are in exact conflict with each other. You say "it's too long ago when Republicans were different" isn't a valid argument." Then in the very next sentence you say, "it was long ago when Republicans were completely different."

WTF?

If you have to go back 50 years to find an example of when Republicans were good for the environment, you proved my point.

It's no different than, "Republicans are the party of Lincoln!"

Your list supporting Republicans means you must support Trump. right?

I mean you can't have it both ways. Nixon created the EPA, Nixon was Republican, therefore Republican policy is to put the environment first. That's what you are arguing.

No one is trying to say Biden was worse than trump.

The meme isn't that Biden was worse but that he did nothing. It's proveably false. Trump himself proved it by criticizing Biden at inauguration and immediately undoing Biden's orders.

"Both sides bad" is why we have Trump.

Democrats took America from gays are illegal, to full gay rights with marriage. Environmental laws have been all Democrats. If Democrats did nothing, Trump wouldn't have signed 76 executive orders reversing Biden orders on his very first day.

Many Catholics voted for her and this won't change their vote. Nothing matters to them but a nationwide abortion ban.

This experience has also made me consider changing the license of Spegel, as it seems to be the only stone I can throw.

Dude used MIT license without knowing why GPL exists, then got upset. If you use MIT, you use it because you absolutely do not care if your work is appropriated by others, especially corporations.

It's like he put furniture on the curb with a "free" sign on it and now is upset his stuff is being sold at an antique store.

He has no reason to be salty because he had in effect told Microsoft to take everything and don't give anything back. So yeah, he should change it to GPL like yesterday. GPL was created because of the problem he has now faced.

There are 2x as many Blacks in prison in the US as Uyghurs in China. But we don't call it genocide just like we call our rich Billionaires instead of oligarchs. At least for now we can make fun of Trump without being arrested. But I don't know how much longer that will last.