Aesthesiaphilia @ Aesthesiaphilia @kbin.social

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1

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588

Joined

2 yr. ago

Yeah I just think the terminology could be a lot better. As you can see it promotes misunderstanding.

That's absolutely what you implied. And it's the result of this line of conversation.

You can't just say "I never said men's issues didn't matter". That's an "I'm not touching you, I'm not touching you" level of technicality. If you're going to bring up women's issues, the very least you can do if you're discussing in good faith is to acknowledge and legitimize the issues that prompted this post in the first place - the unrealistic body standards of men.

By not even mentioning it until called out, you're being dismissive.

Well that's a problem then, because you're using the same term to refer to two different but related things. Well, it becomes a problem when you consider misandry. Sure, there's no systemic oppression of men (except collateral damage from the patriarchy). But there are absolutely individuals and groups of individuals who hate or are dismissive of men. We need a word for that.

I think the popular definitions here are more useful than yours, because it prevents misunderstandings when someone says something like "misandry is a thing that exists". They're not saying it exists in a systemic, structural way. Just that there are individuals who feel like that.

Acknowledging the reality of misogyny does not diminish the suffering of any individual man.

Theoretically yeah, but if you go to every single place where any men talk about any issues they have and start "acknowledging" all over the place it drowns out the original male problems. Especially if you don't even preface your comment with an acknowledgement of the issues men face, of the "lived experience" of men, to borrow a feminist term. You just go straight into "fuck everything y'all are saying, let's talk about women".

It's endemic in the greater social discussion, that's why I'm being so aggressive with pushing back against you. Men don't even have safe spaces to talk about this stuff because they get taken over by alt right misogynists. And whenever we're in a neutral space you people show up like moths to a light. The effect is to silence us.

I have stated several times my belief that body positivity and better representation for diverse body types in media would go a long way to helping men and boys with body issues

Yeah, as a fucking qualifier. As a footnote. It does not sound sincere, and even if it is it's a severe afterthought. And it's still drowned out by the bulk of your message: How Bad Women Have It.

Yeah they do.

The internet is a battleground of ideas.

I know, I get that, I'm asking about terminology. So what would you call a single person who hates women? Not the power structure, just that one person.

Your very first post was saying "men's issues don't matter because women have it so much worse"

I never shut anyone down.

Bullshit.

Men do not experience body policing in even remotely similar ways to women.

This is you, coming into a thread, belittling and shutting down conversation about men's issues.

You claim you're here to refute certain other posts but I don't see any posts claiming what you say, and even if they do exist you absolutely failed to even acknowledge that men do have similar problems here.

Not "I understand, I just want to contextualize this"

Not "I sympathize, because this is how women feel"

Just "fuck your problems, women have it worse"

So yeah, you have the right to say bullshit, and I have the right to call you out on it.

Only if you read it as "women's issues don't matter because men also have issues" which is honestly a problematic place for your mind to go. And clearly not the intent.

What would you call an individual's feeling of hatred of or superiority to women? That's the popular definition of misogyny, not the systemic issues. Usually the system itself is called the patriarchy.

Likewise, an individual's feelings of hatred or superiority to men is popularly called misandry, which absolutely exists. I don't think there's any such thing as a "matriarchy" systemically oppressing men anywhere in the world.

No it wasn't. It was pointing out that unrealistic body standards for men are never part of the conversation, despite being so blatant.

Seriously tho. Why you wanna come in here poking. Yes I'll bite. Stop poking!

It's not an anti-feminist space that you're disrupting. It's also not a feminist space where the topic of discussion is women's problems. It's a neutral space that happened to talk about men's issues right now and y'all came in here with the "BUT WOMEN!!!!" stuff and that really bothers me. Men really don't have any safe spaces to talk about our issues, and as you can see it's also difficult to even bring them up in neutral spaces without being shut down by people like you.

True, you're allowed to come in here and pick a fight if you want to but I don't see why you would want to.

I think I’ve already more than explained how women’s body image issues

EXHAUSTIVELY, yes. Thank you. We get it. We agree.

Now please, STOP

Is the lived experiences of women and girls “oppression olympics” to you?

Yes! Literally yes! You're close to getting it!

"Women have it worse" is participating in oppression Olympics and it's belittling men's problems. I am not disputing the facts of how bad women have it. I don't think anyone in this thread is.

I'm saying it's irrelevant to the conversation at hand, and at BEST it's a distraction.

My cousins spent 2 years on a military base and got an English accent and I thought it was the coolest thing, but then they lost it within a year of moving back to the states. Now they just sound generic American. Sad.

people in this thread were saying that men and women suffer the same from body image policing.

Show me the posts.

And not "the same TYPE OF body image policing" because you're insane if you don't think that's the case.

Show me the posts where people say men face the same degree of body image policing

And then explain why, even then, being combative and dismissive is in any way a good idea.

Again, I think you came here to pick a fight, and that offends me because that's how men's issues are always silenced.

It doesn't. That's not what the meme is saying at all.

The point of the meme is that no one ever talks about unrealistic male body standards, despite it being so blatant.