420blazeit69 [he/him] @ 420blazeit69 @hexbear.net

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505

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4 yr. ago

Had you bothered to read the article you'd see it's not talking about a 2002 war game, but the ongoing war in Ukraine.

So you acknowledge it's not part of the separatist regions. Why would Russia want to occupy hostile territory?

And don't take my word (and common sense) for Russia not trying to conquer the whole of Ukraine; that's what U.S. military analysts think. Or are they Russian propagandists?

Every major head of state lived through the Cold War.

Here is the comment with the article I referred to.

I trust the translation, I don't trust that there is no important context lost (again, diplomatic speak is filled with hedging and caveats).

But taking it at face value for the sake of argument: he said Russia's stance on NATO expansion hasn't changed.

What the fuck are you even talking about?

"They want to keep doing something you think is futile and causing senseless deaths, so why not help them?"

I don't put a lot of stock in some YouTuber I've never heard of stiching together snippets of a lengthy diplomatic remark. That's a surefire way to lose context in an environment where there is tons of hedging and caveats as a matter of course.

But taking it at face value for the sake of argument: he said Russia's stance on NATO expansion hasn't changed.

Both flavors of cope abound regarding Vietnam. I didn't mean to imply I assumed you were American; I'm just pointing out that "if we really took the gloves off they wouldn't stand a chance" is (1) false, (2) a way the public gets sold on the next war, and (3) a silly thing to say when whatever "gloves off" scenario one imagines isn't going to happen.

Every time I see your username I chuckle

Not every Ukrainian is a Nazi.

Neither myself nor the person you were replying to claimed this. They were talking about "Azov, Banderites, and all the other assorted [fascist] trash."

one can be like "oh but Russia is just hiding all this stuff" but I think it's a lot harder to hide that level of mass death than people think.

Spy satellites have the resolution to read stuff like license plates. If Russia was taking these huge losses we would have irrefutable proof of it, not stories or estimates.

They never tried to take the whole country. That's just fantasy and doesn't make sense for a dozen reasons.

About two thirds of Dnipro speaks Russian at home, but ethnic Russians are only 25-30% of the population (see "Demographics"). I would imagine this is why the city is predominantly not separatists.

Their original objective was to topple the government in Kiev

According to who? If you read the article from U.S. military analysts posted elsewhere in this thread, not even they think that was the point of the early war thrust towards Kiev.

Interesting you mention "Mission Accomplished" -- would you say the U.S. and its media did a good job of accurately informing the public about the War on Terror? Would you say they had good intentions?

That's the same Angela Merkel that admitted the Minsk agreements weren't done in good faith, rather, they were just done to create time to build the Ukranian military.

I would call them annexed. The people in them do not want to remain part of Ukraine, they're fine with being part of Russia, and that's the touchstone here.

Russia is not interested in conquering the whole of Ukraine, because most of the people in the western part do want to remain Ukrainian, not Russian.

"We could have won if we tried harder" is U.S. cope from Korea, Vietnam, Iraq. Afghanistan...

A lot of people reject the idea that the so-called rebellion in danetsk and luhansk was a grassroots movement

Therefore, that would lend credence to the idea that Khodakovsky is in fact a Russian commander

"A lot of people are saying it" lends credence to nothing.

The war timeline link in your source, by the way, will show you the front has not moved appreciably for nearly a year.

Oh and btw after the 2004 NATO enlargement (including the Baltics) Putin said that he saw no threat to Russia from that, and also that every country was free to choose their alliance.

Lmao

As NATO Finally Arrives on Its Border, Russia Grumbles

Russia's lower house of Parliament overwhelmingly adopted a resolution on Wednesday denouncing NATO's expansion generally and the deployment of the F-16's specifically.

Echoing warnings in Russia's new military doctrine set forth last fall, the resolution called on President Vladimir V. Putin to reconsider Russia's international agreements with NATO and its own defense strategies, including its nuclear posture.

For Ukrainians it's not the case they're being forced or deceived into fighting, it is a war of national survival! It is a war against an aggressor seeking to at the very least oppress Ukrainian national identity if not destroy it entirely as a political and social force.

Russia is not interested in conquering Ukraine. They're interested in goals like keeping Ukraine out of NATO, maintaining access to the Black Sea, and not having ethnic Russians who don't wish to be a part of Ukraine killed on their borders.