2y ago

Brexit has completely failed for UK, say clear majority of Britons – poll

www.theguardian.com

Only one in 10 feel leaving the EU has helped their finances, while just 9% say it has benefited the NHS, despite £350m a week pledge according to new poll

A clear majority of the British public now believes Brexit has been bad for the UK economy, has driven up prices in shops, and has hampered government attempts to control immigration, according to a poll by Opinium to mark the third anniversary of the UK leaving the EU single market and customs union.

The survey of more than 2,000 UK voters also finds strikingly low numbers of people who believe that Brexit has benefited them or the country.

Just one in 10 believe leaving the EU has helped their personal financial situation, against 35% who say it has been bad for their finances, while just 9% say it has been good for the NHS, against 47% who say it has had a negative effect.

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GreyShuck @feddit.uk

2y ago

Brexit has completely failed for UK, say clear majority of Britons – poll

www.theguardian.com /politics/2023/dec/30/britons-brexit-bad-uk-poll-eu-finances-nhs

195 comments

Nothing good in human history has ever come from conservatism. Nothing at all.
- You mean a backwards looking ideology doesn’t address the needs of society today and in the future?
  
  Even calling it "backwards" is falling for conservatives' euphemistic lie. Conservatism has never really been about "upholding tradition" or any of the bullshit they claim; it's only ever been about authoritarianism and enforcing hierarchy. If it happens to jive with a "tradition" it is only because said tradition is authoritarian and hierarchical.
  
  The "It used to be fine so it still should be" ideology
- conservatism
  Putin worked hard to promote conservative agendas in UK, U.S. and France, to degrade those countries. It worked in all but France.
  
  Yet... Far right is on the highway to the next election
  
  Agreed! France really impresses me. The people there are strong-willed and don't put up with bullshit. I found myself cheering for them all year this year.
- National parks maybe
  
  I think you are confusing conservationism with conservatism. These two topics are completely unrelated. The very first sentence on the wikipedia page for conservationism expresses that.
  If you were referring to presidents who most influenced the proliferation of national parks, I think Lincoln and Teddy Roosevelt would be the two that are most responsible. As you probably know, both were famously progressive (the opposite ideology of conservatism).
Everyone saw this coming but still decided to walk off the cliff rather than admit they'd made a bad decision
- "What we believe shapes who we are. Belief can bring us salvation or destruction. But when you believe a lie for too long, the truth doesn't set you free. It tears you apart."
  
  I spent the first twenty years of my life believing that every piece of gum you swallow stays in you forever 🪦
- Pootin and the GRU/IRA were behind the effort mostly waged on social media
- Around 35% of the total population actually voted for it, and even then, those people weren't the ones who decided to push forward despite it clearly being a shit show.
  Blame the people responsible, I'm so sick of this lazy "everyone" blanket statements people make about events that have very specific individuals and institutions to blame, all it's doing is literally letting them get away with it.
  
  Mmmmmm no. This is the justification many trump voters used. It implies voters are completely off the hook for the consequences of their actions and it's only the 'scheming criminals' who fooled them that can be held accountable.
  Just as ignorance of the law does not get you out of your speeding ticket, allowing yourself to be fooled as a voter doesn't absolve you of the poor choice you made with your vote. It's a collective fuck up. Own it.
  
  That was clear too, but Conservatives still won a majority and expectedly squashed any chance of a second referendum. We can't absolve ourselves of all blame when democracy is still a functional tool we have at our disposal. Now even democracy itself is under attack all around the world, and I'm afraid that "not my fault" mentality will become a self-fulfilling prophecy.
- Yes this analysis was clear as day even before the referendum passed. The only amazing thing here is that 10% still think it has helped. Wow.
  
  10% is actually amazingly low. I've said it before, 25% of any population, any country and time period is dumb as a bag of rocks. So no matter what you'll always have 25% mouthbreathers. Here even 15% of them realized they've been had!
Gosh, if ONLY SOMEONE WOULD HAVE WARNED PEOPLE that brexit was a terrible idea tossed together by fear mongering, self interested dickheads!!! If only someone had mentioned it was a terrible idea ahead of time!
- Also if only more than 24% of the voters could have been arsed to vote.
  
  The vote was cursory, it was not supposed to be binding.
  
  Absolutely. Like in the brexit referendum of 2016, which had a 72% turnout. Not like that referendum you are referencing, which is... Which one exactly?
  
  I voted against it, still annoyed.
- It's not like remainers ever put up a convincing argument prior to losing the referendum.
  Turned voting age on the referendum, visited our predominantly working class school, only ever brought up cheaper phone calls abroad as to why they should vote to remain.
  Brexit only had pull out the weakest reasons to leave becuase they were the only ones who took the referendum seriously.
- The reality is that there were a thousand paths back from that cliff. The vote was no binding, and barely a majority. If the British public wanted to halt it they could have just elected non-leave politicians in the years afterwards, but they didn't.
- The problem was that nobody in the UK did an effective job of arguing for remain. They were caught napping because they were convinced that people wouldn’t want to leave.
  When they realised that we were in danger of voting to leave it was too late.
  Obviously, people in the EU said that it was a bad idea but they obviously would say that because we’re “sending them £350 million a week” and they wouldn’t want to lose that.
  
  The UK spent decades convincing everyone that all bad decisions are made by the EU and all good decisions are made by Westminster. That's the first mistake.
  If the UK had properly educated its citizens about what the EU actually was and did, no remain campaign would've been necessary whatsoever. But it was politically convenient to have a scapegoat.
  And let's be honest, remain aka "remoaners" had a ton of arguments all the time. But brexiteers just wanted to enter the magical land where the UK still mattered and they'd eat their cake and have it still.
All of the last decade, and most of the last 2, has been calamitous for Great Britain. Brexit is just one on a list of crippling blows dealt to its population.
NHS, gone
Home ownership, gone
Europe, gone
Education, gone
wages, gone
environment- going
civil rights - going
With no prospect of any of them coming back .
All sold to neoliberalism.
- The NHS, wages and civil rights were all on the chopping block of the Tories for decades, and people still voted for them in droves.
  
  Because across the board big and little "c" conservatives place money/profit above all else.
- But at least the immigrants have all disappeared! Right?!
  
  It's funny cause I'm here as an imigrant but leaving cause the place is going to shit. So, success?
- Has neoliberalism done anything good or just a way for fucking over everyone but the rich?
  
  Mostly the rich thing.
- Margaret Thatcher is smiling up from hell.
- NHS stands for National Health Service.
Just like most informed people predicted.
You should go crawling on your knees and beg the EU to take you back, and farage, rees-mogg and boris should pay for the entire thing.
- My hot take: the EU is better off without them. Britain has always been a belligerent holier than thou obstacle to progress for the EU, even after they got a sweetheart deal that NO OTHER European nation got offered.
  Let them rot on their island while the rest of Europe actually makes progress.
  
  Yup. If the EU takes them back, it should be with HEAVY scrutiny and no sweetheart deals. You wanna fuck around? Time to find out.
  
  Yup. If the EU takes them back, it should be with HEAVY scrutiny and no sweetheart deals. You wanna fuck around? Time to find out.
- All the while being pissed off that no, you won't get all the exceptions you had the last time. And yes, you'll have to ditch £ for € eventually.
  there's a pretty stupid loophole that allows you to postpone adopting Euro indefinitely, though I feel even the fact that officially they're agreeing to adopt the Euro will be a low blow for the pride of UK people.
- That’s like a couple getting married again after a divorce. It HAS happened, but only when both people are lost together in a world of mutual crazy that neither can live outside. I don’t think the EU is participating in the Uk’s fantasy world, so it’ll never happen.
  
  UK had one of the larger militarys in the EU. Only reason I can see them ever considering it.
Completely failed? That is just not true. For Johnson's co-conspirators, who lied and swindled to profit from Brexit, it absolutely caused the desired shifts in wealth - that is from everybody else into their own pockets.
- There is no better friend to have than the kind that can provide millionaire consulting gigs and non-executive board memberships in thanks for writting the laws with them in mind when replacing EU legislation and regulation.
  Mind you, I'm not saying this is Corruption: the only part of the Judiciary that can investigate and prosecute Corruption in the UK is the Serious Fraud Office who have about as big as budget as the tinniest of British city halls (i.e. Councils) so nobody but the small fry ever gets investigated, much less prosecuted and convicted, so there are no people one can say are corrupt in the UK without falling foul of the local Libel Legislation (which is quite extreme by European standards) as they're not officially corrupt until convicted.
  It's a special country with a special system, hence the continue deca, and whilst Brexit stands out as a trully primo inter pares of specialness, something like this happenning is no surprise.
  The honest and intelligent britons (of which there are many) need to start pondering more on the possibility that when you keep getting the same ailments and treating them only for more appearing, the actual problem might be an underlying disease rather than merelly the ailments themselves.
  
  What a bunch of honourable* honest* innocent* businessmen*.
No shit, Sherlock.
It sounds like cooperation works better than unnecessary contention. Who would have guessed.
9% say it has benefited the NHS
Are 9% of the UK shareholders of plantir or something? Cunts!
- I don’t understand why it’s a fucking opinion poll when there is actual data to examine.
  
  deleted by creator
  
  Why not both? A well-designed poll can be a very useful gauge of public opinion.
  
  Facts don't always say what you want them too. Options can easily be curated for on the other hand.
- I don’t understand why it’s a fucking opinion poll when there is actual data to examine.
- I think that people tend to take just one or two reference points to decide things like this because it’s too complicated to consider them all.
  The points that might have led people to believe that the NHS was improved by Brexit are that we were told that leaving the EU gave us the ability to approve and buy the COVID vaccine more quickly and that we did seem to get it more quickly than the EU.
I genuinely asking for some education on Brexit, because I personally thought, and still think it was a terrible decision for the nation, but I am hoping to get a better understanding from real people and not just read articles. I know I can research it, but would like to hear personal opinions/thoughts/etc….
I am a UK citizen, but I was living my teen and mid adult life in Australia. I didn’t get to vote on Brexit as I was not residing on the country at the time, and never thought I would return. Circumstances have changed, and I have now moved back to the UK at the beginning of the year, so I’m in the thick of the Brexit mess now. I can’t comment on what life was like before Brexit, but I am now a citizen of its consequences.
From my limited understanding, and what I really need clarification and advice on is;
Brexit was a campaign point that David Cameron ran on for election. When he won, he called the referendum, but he was opposed to it. Meanwhile, the Brexit campaign was in full swing with lots of misinformation, but Cameron only decided to rally hard in the leading three months up to the vote, failing to properly educate and explain the deal to the public.
The vote was close. Somewhere in the 52%/48%
Cameron stood down
Brexit happened, finalising at the end of 2020
I know there’s a lot of nuance, and I know I’m missing a lot of major information, but is my understanding the very basic gist of what happened?
Thanks for any response
- From a continental EU country, I can tell you that Brexit was a shitshow from beginning to the end. The Leave campaign was clearly helped by the same Russian bots that helped Trump get the US presidency. Then, May added confusion to the shock and frustration. People kept saying lies, like it is possible to keep the common market benefits while cherry picking which regulation to follow. Then came Johnson and his lunatic demands, like creating an independent judicial body that would rule any future disagreement on the deal between UK and the EU. Then the constant whining and bullying about fisheries and goods transportation. The UK had been a beacon of hope, heart and decency for the whole 20st Century. Brexit has made it a sinister clown in Europe.
  
  Thank you for comment. These points you mention really illustrate the absolute clusterfuck it has become.
  Annoyingly, I believe in democracy and can’t get angry that it happened. It went to the people. The people voted. But damn it was a joke from the beginning, full of lies and deception. Sadly the UK citizens are suffering from this, but hopefully things get better sooner. I’ll always be the eternal optimist.
  
  Calm down with the good old times, India gained its independence in 1947.
  
  The fishing thing is a good example of how Brexit was handled. Fishing has been stirred up by the media for decades causing some strong feelings against the French and Europe. While fishing is pretty meaningless for the average person it became important because people who read certain newspapers thought it was important. That, to me, seems like the backbone of Brexit. Shite from newspapers.
  I'm convinced all the talk about fishing was to stir up these feelings in the public and use it to the politicians will. Raising it with the EU was a message to the people that their concerns are being addressed. Illusion of the people having power.
  Speaking to people who voted to leave I had answers like fishing given. Other answers were that people didn't like talking orders from Brussels, that was more common than fishing. Some racist comments (some REALLY racist). And one person claiming after Brexit he will get gold capped milk back (apparently the EU banned his favourite milk, and that alone was worth leaving the EU...). I know a few people who didn't know what to vote for so went with the "default" to leave. I'm assuming they meant they just followed the crap in the news and didn't apply proper thought.
  This media bollocks is still happening now. I saw the other day an article about being able to buy wine in pints. Sigh.
  It really was a shit show and still is!
- You mentioned Cameron seeming to be a bit limp in opposing it and actually campaigning on it originally. Some interesting context
  https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/apr/07/david-cameron-offshore-trusts-eu-tax-crackdown-2013
  
  Thank you for the article. The more I learn about it, the more fucked up it truly is. I had a basic understanding of bad it was from a simple perspective, but the more you learn, the more messed up it becomes. I really hope there is something good to come from how monumentally messed up the situation is.
  I’m getting used to GDPR regulations in my line of work I haven’t had to deal with… primarily with how my industry uses AI transcription for media. We have to be very careful with which transcription services that reside outside of the UK are used. so if for example, we use an S3 based transcription service in the cloud that is based in France, we might come into issues, even though they might be GDPR compliant. It’s all a bit of a mess, but once you know what to do it is okay, but to cut through the red tape to get an answer can be laborious because so many people need to agree to the request
  That’s just one little thing, out of hundreds of impactful changes because of Brexit. It really was a ballsup
- Yeah, that's about right. And now the Brits are paying the price.
I still wonder why they made that referendum happen in the first place.
- A lot of Rubles
  
  I don't get what you mean by "rubles"
- The Tories were afraid that the Brexiteers would split off from their party, and the "first past the post" would kill them off. So they thought that showing those Brexiteers that their idea had no majority.
  So now they will be killed off by FPTP in 2024. Helped them lots, and killed the countries' future.
  
  Ok.
- The Tories were scared of the rise of the right wing UK Independence Party (UKIP), particularly their leader Nigel Farage. In order to try to stop losing voters to UKIP David Cameron (the prime minister) promised a referendum on EU membership thinking they would not vote to leave. It back fired, he resigned, and the shit show began. The vultures descended to make political and monetary opportunities despite the damage it would do to the country.
  
  The vultures descended to make political and monetary opportunities despite the damage it would do to the country.
  This is the tl;dr of every capitalist nation in history.
  
  The vultures descended to make political and monetary opportunities despite the damage it would do to the country.
  This is the tl;dr of every capitalist nation in history.
- For short time political gain in a deal with UKIP and because they were sure nobody would vote leave.
  
  Darn.
- Power grab and racism
  
  Wasn't it more xenophobia? The word racism is thrown around so much it has almost lost all its meaning. Most of the immigrants were white.
  
  Why racism though?
Hey UK, Come back into the safety of EU's warm bosom.
- I'm not an expert on foreign affairs, but from what I understand, UK got kind of a sweetheart deal to be included in EU originally.
  I doubt very seriously they will get such a sweet heart deal next time, since they are proven an unreliable and fickle partner.. and thats on the pretense they are allowed back in at all.
- But in more equal terms, not with all the special exemptions that were present under the previous terms.
Admitting you're wrong and acknowledging evidence is project fear, correct? Am I doing this right? Tories?
Any sane person would have seen this outcome coming. The leavers were still stuck in the Victorian Era with their mentality.
No fucking shit.
I’m still in disbelief at racist ignorant Tory cunts that voted for this.
Fuck them and their political apathy.
Fuck them and their complete disregard for factual information.
They can now lie in the bed they made, the absolute fools.
- And fuck the fucking fucks!! Fuck you, you fuck! You BIG fuck! You massive, whopping, FUCK!
Imagine voting against Scottish Independence then getting fucked out of the EU immediately afterwards by Brexit.
No shit, when all those who benefited from Brexit absolutely made sure to see that damn trainwreck go through.
Oh gee. Who coulda seen that coming, huh?
Glad it happened, though. The total clown show of Brexit very quickly shut up all the Anti-EU trolls.
- Oh gee. Who coulda seen that coming, huh?
  Only 48% of the country...
  
  And something like 80% of the rest of the world (No source, made it the fuck up :))
- Reading this in a Minnesotan accent. Ah jeez! Who coulda seen this coming, ha, hon? They really, well, they shot themselves damn near in the foot, didn't they now? Don'cha know the Eurapeans want to help you now, but these racists ya see, racism always gets in the way of peace. That's what my mother always said.
Better late than never. Kind of.
This is the best summary I could come up with:
A clear majority of the British public now believes Brexit has been bad for the UK economy, has driven up prices in shops, and has hampered government attempts to control immigration, according to a landmark poll by Opinium to mark the third anniversary of the UK fully leaving the EU single market and customs unions.
The survey of more than 2,000 UK voters also finds strikingly low numbers of people who believe that Brexit has been of benefit to them or the country.
Just one in 10 people (10%) believe leaving the EU has helped their personal financial situation, against 35% who say it has been bad for their finances, while just 9% say it has been good for the NHS against 47% who say it has had a negative effect.
James Crouch, head of policy and public affairs at Opinium, said the perception of Brexit being handled badly and having had negative effects on various aspect of UK life appeared to be spreading: “Public discontent at how Brexit has been handled by the government continues, with perceived failings even in areas previously seen as a potential benefit from leaving the EU.
“Half (51%) of Leave voters now think that Brexit has been bad for the UK’s ability to control immigration, piling even more pressure on an issue the government is vulnerable on.
“This shift in sentiment may be particularly stark among the ‘red wall’ voters who rallied most eagerly to Johnson’s banner four years ago, but have been most exposed to rising bills and collapsing public services since.
The original article contains 691 words, the summary contains 259 words. Saved 63%. I'm a bot and I'm open source!
Well it certainly sucks for Britain but it is great for the EU. Britain was not making the EU better they were dragging it down.
I find it even more uninspiring since it happened right at the time of a Covid. Even those who wanted it now hate it.
Well obviously it was a failure and always was going to be a failure. Whereas before there was frictionless trade, travel, employment, living, there is now an ever expanding wall of bullshit and red tape. Getting goods to and from Europe is subject to import duties and delays that just kills trade - why would a Spanish company buy widgets from the UK when a supplier in Germany can supply them faster and reliably without any customs redtape?
It will take the UK years to form other trade deals, none of which will be remotely as favourable as they would get with negotiating power of the entire EU behind them. There have already been noises in the UK press about having to take food from the US which would fail EU standards - bleached chicken, GM crops, growth hormones etc. And that's because when the US comes to the negotiating table they're going to bend the UK over and screw them. And China, India and the rest of the world will be lining up for some sloppy seconds.
Why did the British owner class allow for this to happen? Have there been any big privatisation efforts after Brexit? Did they hope the NHS would crumble?
okay but like 6 dudes were able to avoid paying taxes, which was the real, actual point of brexit
conservatives always ruin everything
Whilst I firmly believe Brexit was fucking dumb, asking this question of the public seems impossible. How can someone reflect on their finances and say how Brexit has affected them when there is a soup of turmoil impacting personal finances. Energy, wars, COVID, global inflation are also to blame. I think if anyone looked at their personal finances and compares them to 3 years ago with a question prefaced as "Brexit" is going to be steered to saying they are worse off.
Oh no... Anyway...
Ok they had their fun. Can they rejoin?
- I'm not even Bri'ish and I would vote for that. Europe should laugh at them hard then throw in the rope and let them climb back into the boat before they proper drown.
Somebody fucked around and found out.
Absolutely everyone thought it was a bad idea... Except Britton
- A lot of Britton did too. There was a lot of advertising and I think Russia had a hand it too.
  
  Where is Britton?
It's a shame the "clear majority of Britons" have shit all to do with it, and brexshit happened for and because of a handful of people, who are not going to go back on their plan to make themselves richer and have fewer people to answer to, even if 99% of people voting in some poll want them to..
It's about time people get it through their heads that we are never going to be given a better world by those who are holding us hostage, we are going to have to take it.
I think we were always told it was going to be bad before it got better.
I wasn't old enough to vote for Brexit at the time (just under the voting age), and I likely would have voted for Remain had I had the chance, though it feels a little unreasonable to judge the outcome of the Brexit decision just yet.
- Okay but when should the outcome be judged then? What would it take in the future to decide Brexit had been ultimately successful?
  I'm an outsider looking in, but it seems like it's directly failed in some ways Brexiteers promised success (NHS funding), created a complicated customs situation with Northern Ireland, and done nothing of obvious benefit. For it to be successful in the future something needs to change for the better, and I'm not sure what would.
  
  We are in a more resilient position outside the EU than we were inside of it; we are dictating our own laws, we are becoming more stable by no longer relying on immigration to fill in the gaps of our job market, no longer reliant on foreign aid.
  In the short term, of course this is painful. It's withdrawal symptoms. In the long-term, it means that the UK will stick around for longer, regardless of whatever turmoil our neighbours get into.
- Since it sounds like you don’t have much experience with how conservatives work, here’s a tip:
  It’s not going to get better.
didn't this pass by referendum not executive action? and doesn't that mean the people wanted it?
also, if we judge everything by it's ability to help our finances then we'll destroy ourselves, our communities, and the planet
if they change their minds, they should have a referendum and re apply to join the EU if it passes. otherwise, this is just noise
- No, the referendum was non-binding, it was passed by executive action.
  
  David Cameron, who was against it, and therefore the will of the people, resigned because of this referendum.
  It would not be good to pass a referendum and then have its result ignored by executives. What would have been a better outcome? Exercise democracy and then ignore the results??
  I'll say it again. If the people of the UK want change they should do another referendum, see if it passes, and if it does: apply to join.

195 comments