10-Year-Old Shot Dead on Thanksgiving

“But we have to determine if he [Will McDonald] was justified in doing what he did"

Really. Are we relieving shooters of the burden of making sure of what they're shooting at or do we just give people a pass?

Forget making sure, even if it WERE a car prowler, that's still not a justified use of force.
https://giffords.org/lawcenter/state-laws/stand-your-ground-in-nebraska
"Nebraska does not have a stand your ground law. State law explicitly imposes a duty to retreat before resorting to deadly force outside the home.2"
https://nebraskalegislature.gov/laws/statutes.php?statute=28-1409
"The use of deadly force is justifiable when the actor believes that such force is necessary to protect himself or herself against death or serious bodily harm unless the actor knows that he or she can avoid the necessity of using such force with complete safety by retreating. Newton v. Huffman, 10 Neb. App. 390, 632 N.W.2d 344 (2001)."
- Thanks.
  I really don’t like the trend in some states that people seem to be able to kill over theft, or even arguing over a parking space. It’s nuts how little life is worth.
“But we have to determine if he [Will McDonald] was justified in doing what he did"
The kid was coming right at him! /s
How could he be justified in doing what he did (which is shooting his child), he's not a police officer. Usually only rhey get away with stuff like this.
At this point in time, it doesn’t appear that he was justified in firing.”
Maybe put the rest of the quote in there. And are you really mad at the police for doing their job of investigating what happened and following the principal of "Not Guilty Until Proven Guilty".
- That doesn’t change the point of my opinion. Put the rest of it in there seeing as you prefer more information - the part where he shot a 10 year old. So he didn’t verify what or who he was shooting, and yet we have a public statement that that even considers it could have been justified? I’m all for presumed innocence, but when you whip out deadly force you’d better be damned sure what you’re planning on killing and the consequences for doing so, and I have little tolerance for failure to do so.
  /jordanlund has offered legal standards that would seem to make the shoot unjustifiable regardless of presumed innocence.
  E: words

Given family holidays can be very stressful and violent in bad families, I have to wonder if that poor kid said something dad didn't like, or cried, or whined, or otherwise was a completely normal kid and the dad lost his shit and shot him for it. Then came up with "I thought I saw a thief!" to get away with it.

Like, everyone in this thread is assuming the dad actually heard a thief. But I think that should be questioned, too. It's so common for bad families to slap kids around during thanksgiving. My uncle once lost his shit over something stupid and threw his half-paralyzed mom (she'd had a stroke not too long before) out of her chair onto the floor.

There just aren't enough details to say right now. What you're saying is possible definitely but it's impossible to be sure if anything other than a child was killed. Anger is the worst human emotion in my opinion. Seneca calls it a form of temporary madness.
- Agreed. I have an anger problem and I hate it. I can remain calm if I'm prepared for it, but if something takes me off gaurd (or I reach peek frustration) I react before I have time to think.
  It's super annoying, often embarrassing, and the worst of me. It's like things start happening and my hire-order thinking is just straight-up offline until I've said something horrible, stormed off, or thrown something like a toddler. It's like I have to struggle to catch up to what my body is doing
  The only blessing is that I'm physically weak as shit, (and I married a strong man who is chill/non-reactive)
  I wish I could rewire my instinct to fight out of me, but meditation makes me fall asleep
- Very nice. I disagree. If you aren't angry you aren't paying attention. World is going to shit by just about every measure you care to name.
Even if it was a thief ending a life is not a proportional response.

Every gun owner thinks they're a responsible gun owner.

"The boy’s 47-year-old father, Will McDonald, faces a charge of criminal homicide and possession of a firearm by a prohibited person, according to police."
Doesn't look like he's even supposed to be a gun owner.
- It doesn't matter, the pro-gun community will hook them up with either private sales that don't require a background check or an infinite supply of poorly secured firearms.
  After all, executing your family shouldn't just be for legal gun owners.
- Too bad it's only for something as arbitrary as a criminal record, and not for something certain like the inherent frailty and instability of all humankind.
And, statistically, they are correct.
I'm anti lax US gun laws btw. But the amount of gun owners to gun deaths/incidents still demonstrates that most are 'responsible' owners. Even if I still think far far far too many needless gun incidents happen, it's not the majority or even vaguely close.
- Keep in mind that the vast majority of irresponsible acts do not result in natural consequences out of sheer luck. Like most accidental discharges while cleaning don't hit another person. Most unsecured firearms don't result in kids accidentally killing one another.
  The level of negligent behavior is much higher than homicide stats would have you believe.
- Statistics also say that the self-defense argument is largely bullshit: you’re more likely to harm those closest to you than to defend yourself with a firearm
- A few bad apples spoils the bunch. Y'all ruined it for yourselves.
- And, statistically, they are correct.
  And 100% of the ones who are wrong own guns.
- Most drivers are responsible drivers.
- And the majority of nuclear bomb owning nations are the same. Only one country has used them in wartime. 77 years of responsible nuke ownership. That doesn't mean I want more nations to have them.

He said investigators were still working to “figure out” if McDonald may have mistaken his own son for a car thief. Douglas County Attorney Don Kleine said formal charges could be filed as soon as Sunday.
“It’s obviously very tragic,” Kleine said. “But we have to determine if he [Will McDonald] was justified in doing what he did. . . . At this point in time, it doesn’t appear that he was justified in firing.”

Is this real? Did I just eat the onion?

This is America
- Smell that freedom, baby.
  Don't want to be a parent anymore? Just pretend you thought your kid was breaking into the house or something absurd like that, and it'll be a-okay. Just an accident.
- More guns than brains.
  Sad for the kid and his family.
- Yes, This is America
That's important to figure out because it impacts the kind of charges they are going to press. There are different degrees of murder.
If the guy planned on killing his son, that's first degree murder. If he mistook the kid for a car thief that's second degree murder or depending on the exact circumstances maybe just manslaughter. And even with manslaughter the exact circumstances change it between voluntary and involuntary.
So let's not get our pitchforks out for the police doing their work right (for once).
- So why does a potential car thief even be shot. Maybe let the police and later a judge handle thieves and not take justice into your own hands.

Sounds like a traditional american holiday to me.

You should NEVER use a firearm on ANYTHING you cannot identify. If you can't identify it then you shouldn't be willing to destroy it, especially when no threat exists yet.

This man is a fucking coward and a danger to all around him. Put him in fucking prison and toss the key.

Positive identification on your target and what's behind your target.
Every time.
But I don't trust the general public to positively identify a fucking stop sign, let alone a target of a gun.
- Agreed. Would love to see stricter control over who is able to drive.
  And would also love to see gun ownership in the USA at least start to catch up slightly to vehicle use regulations when it comes to things like licensing and registration.
Not required knowledge to buy a gun.

Why didn't the kid had his own gun for self-protect?

We need to make and sell more guns.

You're right! More guns would not only solve this issue, but every other issue! Guns for everyone! *minorities not included
- We need to sell guns to each baby too.

possession of a firearm by a prohibited person

So he wasn't allowed to own a firearm?

Dumbfuckistan

🤣🤣

Firing at a thief sounds weird. You have a party, a bunch of people with you. You can scare them off.

“A burglar! Hold on, let me get my gun.” “Bill, we can all just yell ‘get the fuck out’ at the same time, they’ll probably shit their pants and run.”
- Have you ever stolen something? I doubt so (:
  A bunch of dudes do make you very uncomfy. Not only they see and remember you, they can run and block you from leaving the scene. They can beat you up. They can hold you before cops would show.
  Rule one of stealing is leaving as soon as you are noticed, stakes become too high. Even the dumbest of street theives won't fuck around if you scream aloud about their attempt and have some people to back you up.

It's the price of freedom...

Welcome to Murkia.