Nearly half of Democrats disapprove of Biden’s response to the Israel-Hamas war, AP-NORC poll shows

It's especially hurting him with the demographic he's always struggled with:

Majorities of Democrats younger than 45 (65%) and nonwhite Democrats (58%) say they disapprove of Biden’s handling of the conflict. Most Democrats 45 and older (67%) and white Democrats (62%) say they approve.

"Knowing that our tax money could be paying for the weapons that are murdering children by the thousands over there, it’s getting harder to be supportive of our president and our country in general,” said Brie Williamson, a 34-year-old Illinois resident. Williamson said she “couldn’t see voting for a Republican” but would consider other options next year.

And being forced to pick between this and trump will depress turnout, and depressed turnout is how Republicans become presidents.

And I know Biden's supporters will say "he's still better than trump" and that's true. But it doesn't change the fact that this is a fucked up situation where voters do t have a say in this issue because the only two options for president both support this genocide.

no. running shit candidates is how they lose. no one is entitled to someones vote or support.
dnc wants to win? then look at what your base wants. their approach has always been “you take what we give you” and that resulted in donald fucking trump.
- If a moderate dem wins, they win.
  If a Republican wins, moderates get to be even more moderate and claim they have to, knowing whoever they run next time will probably win just because they're not a Republican.
  The only way moderates lose, is if a progressive manages to win. Because then they lose the main reason lots of people vote Dem: anything is better than a Republican.
  That's why they fight progressives harder than Republicans. Republicans aren't their enemy, they're the rationale that lets moderates in 2023 act like Republicans in 1980 and still win elections
- We could have had Bernie, and sure, he'd be 83 in 2024 (Biden will be 81), but at least he had the idea to use Israel funding as leverage to get Netanyahu to calm the fuck down.
  Instead, we get Biden, who does seem to have a good economic policy, but he was all too eager to jump to a known war-crime-committer's defense.
- I think the most "conservative" thing that has happened in the last couple of elections is the DNC's pick to lead the party.
Ah America. Where we have the great options of genocidal maniac or other genocidal maniac. You see, we're better, because we have the freedom to choose!
- Ah America, you offer the same choice as France and the UK.
- And we can't vote for anyone else, or the wrong lizard might win!
But it doesn’t change the fact that this is a fucked up situation where voters do t have a say in this issue because the only two options for president both support this genocide.
Biden does not support genocide. Biden has definitely been blind to the fact that Israel is an apartheid state that has been intentionally inflicting collective punishment on the Palestinians since Oct 7th.
The Republicans under Trump will green light a complete genocide of the Palestinians. If you want the Palestinians to have a chance then vote Biden. The Democratic party can be reasoned with. The Republican party is controlled by fascists who will establish death camps in American prisons at home and actively support death camps abroad.
I want to see Hamas destroyed, but it's become clear to me that Israel's government is committing war crimes. And yes, so has Hamas, they're a terrorist organization. Israel is supposed to be a freedom loving democracy, that comes with standards.
Since Israel has proven to be unable to conduct this war properly, preserving the lives of civilians is the only important objective now. We need to make it clear to the Democratic party that we want a ceasefire for the sake of Palestinians and Israelis. Given enough pressure Biden can be persuaded to change his mind. The same cannot be said of Trump or the Republican party.
- Bro this ain't a Mad Max movie, no NGO is going to stop a war without questions of Wagner hitting the news headlines
- She’s not a republican, but she was doing mental gymnastics to justify not voting democrat.
  I hate to break it to you but she's a republican already.
- When every choice sucks, and the alternative is akin to throwing a vote away, both parties start looking more alike.
  Except for one key fact: only one of the options is pushing for things like total abortion bans, LGBTQ criminalization, government funded religious indoctrination, etc. Don't buy into Horseshoe Theory.
  They're only similar in that they both suck, are politically right, and are funded by corporate interests. But that's where the similarities end. All garbage stinks, but it doesn't all stink the same.
- honestly I’m just happy someone appears engaged enough to even do any research at all. and you’re not wrong, we have 2 right wing parties in the US. the rich old white republicans, and the rich old white democrats with an African themed robe on.
- I wish you weren't getting down votes. This situation is pushing more people into that space. Or just suppressing enthusiasm which will turn into fewer votes.
  I get that this instance/Lemmy doesn't like that, and I get the sense this instance is entitled to votes from any non-white, non-male, but... Reality is more complicated and everyone gets agency. That's part of the foundations of treating people with respect, I thought.

It’s Biden vs trump, and there’s zero chance I’m voting for a waste-of-carbon republican traitor. Now or at any time in the future. I don’t like our stance on Israel/Palestine, but that is immaterial to the choice I must make.

Yeah I mean let's be honest about this, trumps reaction to this incident probably would have been giving isreal nukes.
- They already have nukes
Im with you. Honestly im not sure there is a possible stance I would be happy with. Its like being happy with the strategy used in viet nam.
you could vote for literally anyone else.
- Yes, and I could also shoot myself in the dick.
When voting between two parties that support genocide the only moral option is not to vote.
Fuck the stupid lesser evil thing. You are choosing and supporting genocide the moment you vote for it
- You’re supporting genocide simply by paying your taxes. Grow the fuck up.
- If you're voting in the US you're living on and benefitting from land that was stolen by a full on genocide. Unless you're voting for someone that wants to vacate the land and hand it back to the Native Americans, then you're already voting to support genocide. So I wouldn't really hold onto that argument to rationalize giving the bigger evil a better chance
- Well then you're just casting a vote for Trump by default. You still have made a choice.
- If you're in the US, with a two party system, not voting for the less evil is actively enabling the greater evil.
  You think Trump or any GOP candidate wouldn't do the same? Or worse? They're certainly not going to do anything better than Biden.
  Voting on principles is for the Primaries. Try and get the best candidate possible that you actively believe in into the race. Election Day however is when it's time to put your adult pants on, accept the world is messy, and vote for the least worse option possible, because otherwise you're just abetting the worst option.
If it's a choice between one geriatric who endorses genocide and another geriatric who endorses genocide, why should I be voting for either?
I still haven't decided but atm I'm leaning towards 3rd party
This "lesser evil" thing is smoke and mirrors.
- Well one endorses genocide, the other wants to enable and cause genocide in our own country. I'd prefer my existence to not be criminalized.
- Unfortunately when you have to pick between two lesser evils, even deciding not to choose is a lesser evil. Inaction can sometimes lead to the greatest evil.
  Refusing to make a decision doesn't absolve you of culpability for the consequences.
- You wanna shoot yourself in the dick? Hey, your choice. You’re fucking a lot of people, though.

It seemed to me (looking in from the outside) that he merely kept on doing what the US had always done.

Apparently it's the public opinion that has changed, while the diplomacy plodded on in it's usual well-travelled trail.

Who knew that Millennials would hate casual genocide?
- Millenials are killing the casual genocide industry, what's next the military industrial complex??
I mean, that's kind of the biggest complaint about Biden and the whole moderate wing...
They act like nothing ever changes and they don't have to react. There's a shit ton of urgent problems they just won't address because they don't give a shit.
They don't honestly have any goals or things to accomplish other than being elected.
So why are we still electing them? The only positive to electing a moderate Dem is a Republican doesn't win. It's why America has been steadily backsliding for decades, and if we keep electing them it'll keep happening.
Best case scenario, politicians like Biden are a "pause button" on America's collapse. And for the people who still have decades of life left, that's just not good enough for us.
- That's why I voted Biden. I voted Biden in the general election (but voted Bernie in the primaries) because I wanted everyone out of the nightmare circus that was Trump and the Republican regime. A regime we haven't seen so devastatingly retarded since the Bush era. Right now, it's way too dangerous to allow Republicans total control. It's like, look what they do when they're in Congress. Look what they do when they control state governments. They are totally in another realm of reality far off from what we classify as normal today.
  I wish we would've ended up with Andrew Yang at least if we couldn't have Bernie. I like Democrats because with Democrats, the worse that they can do is just make small mistakes but mistakes that can be repaired. If we elect a single Republican, that's 4 more years of irreversible damage we're not going to recover from and it'll take over maybe several terms of presidencies to fix maybe a handful of problems.
- From out here, we don't follow US politics all that closely. But it seems that the extremes (republicans and religious, they go hand in hand I suppose) in your country are so wild that it's probably also quite difficult to get anything done.
I don’t have any hard data on this but I felt like the 2014 Gaza War was a turning point. It’s the first time I really remember a narrative change in America. The traditional media, government officials, etc. were as pro-war and pro-Israel as ever but civilians in Gaza were sharing dramatic photos and videos on social media.
- Europe has always been much less radical on that issue. But I remember that around 2010 or so, the Palestinians definitely ramped up their communication efforts towards the international media. So that probably had an impact.

I have a very strong don't blow up kids policy, that doesn't care what religion or political party you subscribe to or even race. If you do blow up kids, we feel strongly that you should just fuck right off and we should do whatever we can to stop those killing kids.

"The terrorists are using schools as shields though!"
Guess you shouldn't use artillery strikes and bombing runs then.
- "The terrorists are using schools as shields though!"
  "Oh damn that's a genius strategy. Better just give up every military advantage I have and send in my soldiers to be ambushed."
Child killers are on both sides though so who are you to speak?
The issue isn't holding a moral high ground or playing into ultimatums of mutually assured destruction since they're already there.
- I am not funding Hamas, my tax dollars are going to Israel and they are killing kids, nuff said. At this point, I think the world is looking at Hamas in a whole new light thanks to Israel and the media.
So what did you do to stop the US killing kids in Iraq and Afghanistan?
An estimated civilian death toll in the hundreds of thousands, and millions displaced.
What are your plans to prevent or oppose the mass deportation of millions of those Afghan refugees as just announced by Pakistan?
There's just a bit of morbid irony in anyone from the US acting like they are on a high moral horse here when their own country has exported an order of magnitude more harm around the world largely to crickets within the country, particularly in comparison to the opposition to something like the Vietnam war.
The US is still currently active in its bombing and involvement in Syria. Thousands of civilians killed by coalition forces, hundreds of thousands fled the country as a result of the conflict. Have you even done anything about that one?
It's just wild when civilians in the US get riled up by the foreign policy conflict of the week, take their sides typically along partisan lines, and pat themselves on the back for taking their stand. "We'll hold our politicians accountable." Meanwhile the actual joint military and intelligence branches have their hands in a half dozen conflicts around the world and are directly responsible for much greater harm that's just far less publicized in Western media because of press relations forged in the wake of Vietnam, and stories like this don't get picked up past the investigative groups researching them.
The US routinely blows up kids and has a long history of refusing to submit itself to international courts.
But no, Americans don't focus on changing the policy and scope of their own government's actions (the thing they in theory have greater influence over). They just get worked up over the actions of other governments allied with the US - and then either are upset about funding Ukraine if Republican or upset about funding Israel if Democrat. At least this week. I'm sure in a few months we'll have moved on to a new Kony 2012 people are "very upset about and not going to forget about until something is done."
(Seriously, the idea the current events will have any real impact on an election a year from now is laughable.)
I'd even be willing to bet at least 95% of all the Americans complaining about foreign governments bombing things couldn't even point on a map to all the places that their own government has bombed children in just the past decade.
- Whataboutism or whataboutery (as in "what about…?") denotes in a pejorative sense a procedure in which a critical question or argument is not answered or discussed, but retorted with a critical counter-question which expresses a counter-accusation. From a logical and argumentative point of view it is considered a variant of the tu-quoque pattern (Latin 'you too', term for a counter-accusation), which is a subtype of the ad-hominem argument.[1][2][3][4]
  The communication intent is often to distract from the content of a topic (red herring). The goal may also be to question the justification for criticism and the legitimacy, integrity, and fairness of the critic, which can take on the character of discrediting the criticism, which may or may not be justified. Common accusations include double standards, and hypocrisy, but it can also be used to relativize criticism of one's own viewpoints or behaviors. (A: "Long-term unemployment often means poverty in Germany." B: "And what about the starving in Africa and Asia?").[5] Related manipulation and propaganda techniques in the sense of rhetorical evasion of the topic are the change of topic and false balance (bothsidesism).[6]
  Some commentators have defended the usage of whataboutism and tu quoque in certain contexts. Whataboutism can provide necessary context into whether or not a particular line of critique is relevant or fair, and behavior that may be imperfect by international standards may be appropriate in a given geopolitical neighborhood.[7] Accusing an interlocutor of whataboutism can also in itself be manipulative and serve the motive of discrediting, as critical talking points can be used selectively and purposefully even as the starting point of the conversation (cf. agenda setting, framing, framing effect, priming, cherry picking). The deviation from them can then be branded as whataboutism.[citation needed]
  Both whataboutism and the accusation of it are forms of strategic framing and have a framing effect.[8]
I have a very strong don’t blow up kids policy,
How about take an adult version of that and support actions that stop the blowing up of kids in the long run? I.e. the destruction of a terrorist organization.
- How about understanding that more killing doesn't bring the "destruction of a terrorist organization" - it brings more terrorism.
- When the terrorists are armed with US weapons and blow up Tel Aviv we will talk then. When doctors and the nurses and Americans are blown up by Hamas in Israel we will talk then as they level Synagogues and hospitals and the fleeing refugees. Israel has lost all their moral support at this point, took a tragedy, and highlighted their history and evil racist beliefs and supremacy as the "chosen people" not unlike the "master race" before them.
- I'm sorry I wasn't aware that Hamas is using infants?

I said this a week ago and got downvoted to hell, but I'll say it again: this issue will fuck him next November

Its possible, but how smooth brained would someone have to be to vote for Trump over this?
- Many just won't vote.
  Which is still absolutely absurd, because any Democrat who doesn't vote for Biden is implicitly granting his Republican opponent a vote. This opponent may be Trump, but even if it isn't, it's still a Republican whose position on Israel and the conflict will make Biden's response look measured.
  Many people are angered by Biden's response, but for pro-Palestinian supporters it's cutting off your nose to spite your face to not vote this cycle for Biden. You're actively allowing an even worse option.
- I hope we can get someone better in the primary
- As much as the democrats want to believe this, it isn't the only alternative. Maybe it will just make some people stay home on election day
If so, that’s fucking ridiculous. Jesus fucking Christ democracy will die because Joe Biden didn’t force Israel to stop their genocide and only told them to stop instead????
Fuck this goddamn retarded existence just fucking kill me already Jesus fucking Christ
FUCK THIS GODDAMN PLANET
- Tankies aren't humans. They hated voting for Biden the first time but did so because Trump was the literal devil. Now Hassan Piker has riled up his masses of dumbasses to completely turn on what is the best president we had since Obama (I'm only speaking economically, so shut up).
  Please vote. No matter what anyone tells you, vote. Get your idiot friends to vote. Remind them of what's at stake.
The problem with Presidency. More people approve of his decision than disapprove. Either choice would have fucked him next November.
Lucky for him, Encumbants get a huge leg-up on the reelection bid and need to basically be guilty of treason not to win.
- That's what I'm saying, it doesn't really matter what he does here. Unless he abandoned 70 years worth of American diplomacy, he simply cannot sell this as an appeal to the more progressive wing of his caucus (which he desperately needs). Progressives are already skeptical of his progressive bona-fides, and this is just another reminder that he's a Neo-liberal democrat at heart.
  It really depends on how things shake out in the next year, but this is certainly the most likely thing (right now) that could sink him. Even if he doesn't loose, it certainly makes things way harder down the ticket. He could either end up loosing house seats or he could have to contend with a far more polarized congress, and either way that's bad news.
How?
The vast majority of American Jews are Democrats and seem to be supporting Biden's response.
Most pro-palestinian Democrats know that the Republican Party will not advance their cause in any way and not voting will only support the Republican Party.
There's outrage but when people think about what Trump would do... Geezus. Trump would declare war on the whole Middle East.
The question is will this event get the Republican voters out and keep Democrats voters home? Just for them to regret their protest non-vote again.
- Considering that the protest non voters have responded to Dobbs by answering criticism over it with "Well I wasn't pandered to enough!" and "Rights are a fiction anyways!"
The other guy has a much worse record though and he's counting on that.
What I think will happen is trump will go to jail then the Republicans will pick someone else like Nikki Haley and Biden will be in trouble. I don't like her but she's much more palatable than Trump so she may have a chance.
Yeah. And it would have been this way no matter if he did nothing, attacked Hamas directly, or bombed Israel.
The conflicts in the Middle East is very devisive. Folks have been fighting over that area since before we have written history. No matter what you do someone is going to want you dead.
I think his approach of guarding without direct invasion is probably the right one, but neither side will be happy with it.
- Folks have been fighting over that area since before we have written history
  Sure, but things got a whole lot worse for world politics in the 20th century.
- Yup.
  People seem to think I'm saying he's made the wrong choice and he'll loose because of it, but really I'm speaking very broadly.
  What I think is unique to him in this election is his target voters. His caucus is significantly more progressive than they were even 12 years ago, which is why his whole message thus far has been 'the most progressive president of a generation'. And the Palestinian conflict in particular has seen a huge swing in sentiment. It used to be that the Democrats could reliably run a pro-israel campaign and their base would at least tolerate it, but that's not the case now.
  The Republican base could not be more different, and honestly I think someone like Trump could campaign on even an anti-zionist position and not loose much support.
  That the conflict flaired now is a disaster for him, because there is no way to handle it that will net him more votes. In particular, Biden would never be the one to change what has been the American diplomatic position for the last 70 years. And I think Netanyahu knows this, and will press the issue well into 2024 to rally support for his own goals.
- People also forget how brutal war is. Civilian casualties are the rule, not the exception, esp in urban engagements. Ceasefire is also a laughable proposition, if you think either side would actually do it I have a bridge to sell you.
  Really all we can do is see how this goes. And I know that even if the Israeli govt. is awful, if it's a choice between them and Hamas controlling the area in the end, I'd rather see it be Israel.
i mean what do you want him to do? any action through the un would likely be vetoed by uk or france, he has no control over the israeli military, the media has taken the propaganda hook line and sinker, and congress controls monetary relief (unless you want him to withhold aid which has been apportioned for relief already which is exactly what trump did that got him (rightfully) impeached).
It won't but I like to remind actual voters to stop being complacent.
I doubt international affairs affect many votes at all unless it's something that involves significant deployment of American soldiers.
Voters really only care about the things they think affect them.
“Progressives” will elect Donald “Muslim Ban” Trump then. Morons.

I hope nearly everyone realizes that. I can't tell if the psyop bots have made their way here already, or if people are really this unbelievably idiotic, but either way, I can't write off Trump winning and doing far more nefarious bullshit than ever before. He will make Florida look like a leftie sanctuary.
I guess the mountain of bigotry, corruption, destabilizing geopolitical decision, dismantling of key government institutions, massive wealth transfer to the .1% during 2016-2020 along with the attempted coup, stacked courts, and Roe V Wade somehow wasn't enough to convince some people that allowing Trump to win will speed run us to Gilead.
I find it extremely difficult to believe anyone who lived through the Trump years who isn't an idiot or a bigot could ever allow that senile madman back in office. Which is why I have to wonder if there's some psyop shit going down. But if he does win, what little shred of hope I retain for this country will be gone and I will need to look into living elsewhere, somehow for the safety of my family.
- No they understand that letting Trump win is a Gilead speed run, they're counting on it.
  They would like us minority and queer folks to kindly shut up and die so they can cosplay as revolutionaries and "avenge" us.
  "First Hitler, then our turn.", a common chant of the Weimar Communist Party when justifying not forming an electoral coalition with the SPD that would have beaten the right and kept Hitler out of power in the first damned place.
- Yeah Lemmy has a lot of "power user" posters who flood the site with stuff that supports certain narratives, upvote each others posts consistently, reply to a lot of comments with copy pasted answers, and all downvote views which don't match their agenda.
  It's hard to tell whether it's coordinated astro turfing, or if it's just the kind of platform that attracts certain viewpoints and people who have way too much time on their hands. It makes it quite pointless to try and engage in most political threads because it's just exhausting.

I love how the headline sounds so negative, and yet looking at the Numbers they could have easily just said "more Democrats approve of his handling of the crisis".

I mean, almost half the members of his own party disagree with him, not the nation as a whole. If this doesn’t go away, it is not good news.
The old adage come to mind that, “The left fall in love, and the right fall in line.” The right will more reliably vote for “their guy”, but I’ve seen so many losses on the left because of disenchantment.
- That's part of the problem, though: the left never fell in love with him. He got elected by a small margin in a few key states similar to that of Trump 2016 mainly due to not being Trump rather than any merit of his own.
  It might not work a second time since voters have ridiculously short memories and "not the other one" tactics are much less effective for incumbents.
- At this point, there's not many things that more than half of Democrats agree on. We're the entire political spectrum of "everything that isn't fascist".
The headline is supposed to reflect the story. "More than half of Democrats support Israel" is "Dog Bites Man", there's nothing surprising. The fact that almost as many are opposed is the "Man Bites Dog" part.
Or they could have been brutally honest and said "more than half of democrats approve of enabling genocide".
And before you say "but Trump and the Republicans are much worse", yes that's obviously true but that's besides the point.
- If we're truely being honest then the majority of Americans think Isrealis are all descended from holocaust survivors surrounded by Bin Ladens who hate freedom.
  American education is extremely hyper focused on itself and itself exclusively. A US student only learns about other countries through the propaganda version of armed conflicts it personally participated in.
- One turtle tells me news that I like to hear and let's me forget about the bastards over there that we keep supporting
- Or they could have been brutally honest and said “more than half of democrats approve of enabling genocide”.
  Actually, if they were being genuinely honest, it would be more like "more than half of democrats think Biden's making the best choice in an all-round shitty situation". None of us approve of enabling genocide.
  Some people actually think "pushing Israel to set rules of engagement" is some of the best we're going to get if we can't get the entire world on-board. Nobody wants to invade Israel to stop this (do they), and Israel is out for blood right now. Trying to focus them towards Hamas and not "destroying Palastine" might be the only win we can have 7,000 miles away.
  I'm a fence-sitter on this issue, but I think the majority that supports Biden's plan do so for reasons that have nothing to do with "enabling genocide".
  I get that you want us to condemn Israel. And I'm sure it's been considered. I also undersetand there are ramifications to the US of doing that, and it won't necessarily save a single Palestinian life.

They need to follow up and ask what their opinion is of Trump and if supporting Israel is enough to convince them to not vote.

Disapproval on it's own, means nothing.

I disapprove of a lot of what Biden has done. Does that mean I'll vote Trump? Fuck no!

It's the difference between 40% disapproval vs. 120% disapproval.

Very few people switch between the two parties...
But around a third of Americans just don't vote.
And stuff like this makes people not vote. And when turnout is low, we end up with republicans in office.
Getting people to show up to vote is kind of the most important thing in an election...
For some reason when it's a moderate dem candidate, it's no longer their job to get votes. It's the voters job to be the adult and vote for someone they dont want who will do things they do t agree with, because the other option will do things they don't agree with
Do you honestly not understand how this is a terrible strategy and maybe, just maybe, wed be better off running good candidates that will try to help?
Not just about this, but with pretty much every major issues facing America today.
- I don't think it's a 'strategy', it's just reality. Better candidates don't get the votes, especially in the dnc primaries

Genuine question: other than the speech right after Oct 7 happened, what has Biden even done besides require Ukraine and Israel funding to be in the same bill? I keep seeing posts about Biden's response but I still don't know what it is :c

In my post history, I was leaning towards Israel in the beginning until I learned about the atrocities they committed/are committing. At this point, I'm firmly of the opinion that Palestine needs justice.

Biden hasn't done much other than secure their funding, which is by no means a small amount btw, but he has made a lot of statements about it that people disagree with such as
"This attack has brought to the surface painful memories and the scars left by a millennia of antisemitism and genocide of the Jewish people.
So, in this moment, we must be crystal clear: We stand with Israel. We stand with Israel. And we will make sure Israel has what it needs to take care of its citizens, defend itself, and respond to this attack.
There is no justification for terrorism. There is no excuse.
...
The loss of innocent life is heartbreaking.
Like every nation in the world, Israel has the right to respond — indeed has a duty to respond — to these vicious attacks.
I just got off the phone with — the third call with Prime Minister Netanyahu. And I told him if the United States experienced what Israel is experiencing, our response would be swift, decisive, and overwhelming.
We also discussed how democracies like Israel and the United States are stronger and more secure when we act according to the rule of law."
~ WhiteHouse.gov
Kind of hard to walk back a statement that basically boils down to "Killing innocents is wrong when they do it, but it is good when we do it."
EDIT: some typos
Genuine question:
Aside from pressure and funding, which the US government has yet to manifest, what would your expectations be of the US government in this situation?
The response people expect from his is an immediate ceasefire which he still has failed to accomplish. Not only that, he has failed to outright counter the narrative that Palestine = Hamas that some news outlets are spewing and failed to approach the issue with neutrality. Blanket support for Israel has made him (and the US) complicit in a genocide.
People in his admin have quit over his stance and are apparently furious with how he’s positioned the US in this “war”. He/his admin also criticized Rashid Tlaib for speaking in favor of Palestine which caused dems and republicans to censure her.
https://www.politico.com/news/2023/11/06/u-s-diplomats-slam-israel-policy-in-leaked-memo-00125538
https://www.politico.com/news/2023/10/18/state-department-official-resigns-citing-destructive-decisions-in-israel-hamas-war-00122380
https://www.vox.com/politics/2023/11/9/23953902/rashida-tlaib-censure-palestine-statement
Basically, fuck Biden. And also, we’re fucked in 2024 at the hands of yet another geriatric asshole incapable of forming a coherent sentence, chose which flavor (D or R) you want.
- choose what flavor (D or R) you want
  You really gonna wrap up your shit take with a brain dead both-sides line?
  Thanks for the laugh, moron

So, a majority of Democrats approve of Biden's response? I see.

So weird that funding a genocide isn’t well received.

$260 billion US taxpayer dollars.
Israel has free healthcare, college, and war. How neat for them.

This is one part of why it is even possible for him to lose. States that managed to eek out an extra brain cell last time may not this time. Minnesota, Wisconsin, Georgia, New Mexico, and Arizona could be in play for anyone with a heart beat that is not Joe Biden.

There had better be a strong Democrat primary in 2024. If the party capitulates to Biden, the base is going to heave a depressed sigh and probably stay home. The loud people online who swear Americans are too afraid not to vote for him are a tiny vocal faction. 2016 should have proven that. Many more people would rather watch it burn than continue the farce that got us here.

Pro-Tip - Nobody serious will primary him.
The history of primarying a sitting President is that if you do the damage, you won't win, but the President will fail in the General.
- How many times has that happened?
  Once with Carter?
  And wasn't that the moderate establishment intentionally kneecapping his second term because if a Republican won they could say it was because Carter was too progressive and the Dem party needed to be more conservative? But if Carter got a second term, progressives would keep winning primaries?
  I can't think of another time an incumbent Dem president was primaried.
  But I bet the next time it happens is after the first term of a progressive president. Suddenly party leadership will decide we deserve a say in their private event where they don't have to respect the results.
- If Biden foregoes a run (he won't) and named an heir, we'd be in a better place than described. But it cannot look like Hillary Clinton on the way to a coronation. We lost that one.
Biden is almost guaranteed to be the Democrat nominee. They aren't going to do a serious campaign against their own incumbent.
The 2024 election is going to be Biden vs Trump unless one of them dies or goes to jail.
I do worry for 2024 because I can really tell that the Democratic party will still lean hard on Biden, regardless. I mean, they leaned on Hilary Clinton very hard even though there were actually better and more suited candidates running. Right now, I'm only hearing crickets as to what the Democrats can prop up as running candidates. This is really worrying, in an election that should be a given, because Republicans are busy eating at eachother. That should be taking advantage of, not resting on your laurels in hopes it guarantees you another term.

Nobody is a winner when it comes to holy wars, which is what this is all about. Everyone's a loser. I mean, what the hell can you do when one part of a country wants to annihilate another populace based on belief?

50/50 is probably about what you'd expect, it's a volatile situation with a lot of emotion attached to it.

That’s of Democrats, not the nation as a whole. I can’t think of any other policy issue that has split the party so thoroughly. The split is deeper than in the past, which is potentially good for Palestinians, but bad for Biden, no matter what policy he chooses.
- but bad for Biden, no matter what policy he chooses
  We're agreeing on that. D's have been split on a lot, people will forget in a month because it doesn't effect the US.

At least he didn't invite Hamas to the WH or Camp David like the Taliban was invited. 🤷‍♂️

He has to condemn the killing of kids, do I even have to say that....sad.

Yes, you do have to say that. Everyday. Loudly and repeatedly.

Wow, this will lead to a huge bump in his primary opponents polling. What? He doesn't have any? Well, then why the fuck would Biden care what democratic voters think? All he has to do is be to the left of whomever the Republicans nominate after Trump is thrown in jail.

This assumes that everyone actually goes to vote.
If someone is disillusioned, they may sit out that vote. I know I've heard a few republicans basically say "I can't vote for Trump, but I certainly can't vote for a democrat, so I'll just leave that one blank". This could be a similar situation here, that folks disheartened by support given to a country going too far in a military response and unable to vote for it with a clear conscience.
Logically, one would realize the alternative is even worse and vote for lesser of evils, but some folks don't vote that way.
Depresses voter turnout in the general.
Its a failure of communications. A ceasefire without the return of hostages means that hezbollah strikes, the middle east erupts into war, and Gaza gets leveled by Iran. So a humanitarian pause is much more appropriate if you are trying to prevent palestinians from being killed. Theh have done a very poor job of communicating that.

The problem is that it's a Kobayashi Maru.

- So you'd argue that Hamas was right to abduct and execute the festival goers?
  It's a no-win scenario, not a catch-22. It's meant to measure an officer's resilience under stress.
  Israel is clearly in the wrong, and has been. But none of us possess a time machine to go back and correct the original problem. A two state solution is ideal, but Palestinians never had any reason to trust Israel, and Israel didn't have reason to stop expansion.

Doesn't mean he gets to do whatever he wants with only Republicans allowed to criticize him.

And more than half wish he’d support Israel harder.

I live in a very Jewish area, with the Halocost Museum 20 minutes away, my brother in-law is Jewish, I'm friends with his whole family and a bunch of others. Nobody supports Israel, and it's a common topic of conversation. I don't know anyone either in local politics that supports Israel, and I am active there. Israel IS the problem - their horrible treatment of Palestinians resulted in Hamas rising to power. they're continued unrelenting land grabs and abuse have continue to strengthen Hamas. They want to continue to steal land, and if they make peace they won't be able to. If You total the body count over the last decade there are far far more dead Palestinians than there are Israelis.
Even now, with every civilian they kill in their response, they create four or eight more terrorists. Israel's government is on the fast track to authoritarianism with the anti-democratic movement there that is actually worse than the GOP here. We should not be giving them a dime. We don't owe them anything, and we're broke. We've giving them more than enough.
The Democrats are on the wrong side of history for every day they don't condemn the atrocities Israel is committing.
- Nobody supports Israel
  Poll in article says otherwise. Supporting Israel is wildly popular.
  I hate the government of Israel.
  I wish you were right.

Rosa Luxemburg had some thoughts on our current situation.

This is the best summary I could come up with:

WASHINGTON (AP) — Nearly half of Democrats disapprove of how President Joe Biden is handling the Israel-Hamas conflict, according to a new poll from The Associated Press-NORC Center for Public Affairs Research — showing a deep divide within his party over the war.

The poll found 50% of Democrats approve of how Biden has navigated the conflict while 46% disapprove — and the two groups diverge substantially in their views of U.S. support for Israel.

The war could complicate Biden’s reelection effort as he faces having to balance factions of his party with very different views on the conflict and who is ultimately responsible.

Of Democrats who approve of Biden’s handling of the conflict, 76% say Hamas has a lot of responsibility for the war and 32% say the same about the Israeli government, according to the AP-NORC poll taken this month.

“Knowing that our tax money could be paying for the weapons that are murdering children by the thousands over there, it’s getting harder to be supportive of our president and our country in general,” said Brie Williamson, a 34-year-old Illinois resident.

Biden, like his Republican and Democratic predecessors, has endorsed a “two-state solution,” though no American administration has made genuine strides toward such an accord.

The original article contains 895 words, the summary contains 207 words. Saved 77%. I'm a bot and I'm open source!

I'm just here to take a drink everytime I see a "well if you don't vote for him, you vote for Trump" comments. Let's get me drunk, people.

I mean... Take a drink I guess. If you've got ideas on how to replace the FPTP voting system without a violent revolution then I'm all ears.
- There's one.
They could vote Libertarian, though. They are usually against war funding. In a two-party system, that's technically a (half-)vote for Trump also, but at least they'd be making a point.
- That point that the consequences anyone else experiences from Republicans winning are worth it to you to feel morally superior.

Less than half? That's depressing, given that he's pretty much all in on the genocide enabling and other whitewashing of the apartheid regime 😮‍💨

If those 46% vote Trump in the next elections because of this, I will declare that Democrats are fucking idiots.

Unlikely given Trump is a big big part of why it's happening at the moment.
- You could be overestimating the intelligence of your average Democrat voter, but I'll be happy to be shown otherwise.
if you're against the war in gaza why would you vote for someone who pledged to turn gaza into a parking lot?
- who pledged to turn gaza into a parking lot?
  Who did that?

There's no way to address the issue that would be acceptable to both sides. If he's at a 50-46 split, that's probably about as good as anyone could do.

The sign of a good compromise is that nobody's happy

Oh boy the internet really has produced some really dumb people, or just really influential bots.

Some claims that being against Israel government is anti-semitic. Some thinks if you're against Hamas, you're against Palestinians. Both are just wrong. It's possible to be in support of Israelis and Palestinians and reject both Hamas, and Bibi. And most people on both ends do want peace. Their government and main supporters don't want that.
A cleanup in leadership of Palestine and Israel is to be done. But, I can't expect that.

Why is everyone still talking like Trump is going to be on the Ballet??

Ballot*
Ballet is a kind of dance.
- Oh God. Trump in a tutu is a horrible image to have in one's head.
He ends up either dead or the repub nominee. They’ll nominate him even if he’s imprisoned. These are not mentally competent people we’re talking about.
- Well I sure know which I would prefer...

this is one of the most difficult international issues to navigate. there really isn't a "right answer". he's screwed either way.

He needs to keep his mouth shut on it. It’s not a US fight. Don’t pick a side.

The only correct side to choose is that of the civilians on both sides.
- Give Gaza an Iron Dome!
- Strongly agree
- And to that end, preventing regional war would be helpful. Although, that itself, is problematic and pulls the US deeper into this.
Israel is using rockets that are made in the USA and paid for by US taxpayers to commit a genocide.
This has always been a US fight.
- I’d like to read more on that. Can you supply the link where you read that it was given to them for free after this all started?
Unfortunately the US is gonna pick a side when so many of our politicians are bought by aipac. That and the US has strategic geopolitical reasons to back Israel.
I don't agree with it, but it's kinda why the US is always there to defend Israel when they decide they wanna kill some Palestinians.

And of that half 95% could not point to Israel on a map.