Fetterman calls rush to blame Israel for hospital blast ‘disturbing’

“Who would take the word of a group that just massacred innocent Israeli civilians over our key ally?” he added.

Anyone who knows the history of our 'key ally'.

Well, that's like taking the word of al-Qaeda at face value because you know the history of the United States.
- More that I wouldn't regard our 'key ally' as particularly trustworthy. If Pakistan and the Taliban contradict each other, I'm not likely to take the word of either as gospel.
Which you, obviously, do not.
- You're right, Israel would never knowingly harm innocent Palestinians, thank you for the correction.

And it looks more and more like Fetterman is right. That video showing the rocket launch from Gaza arcing back towards the hospital is pretty damning.

Israel should still be held to account for its oppression and subjugation of Palestine, but it's important not to forget that Hamas is a brutal terrorist regime that murders and "disappears" Palestinians who speak up against them. Hamas is not Palestine, and the Palestinians deserve better.

Yeah frankly I'm tired of this rhetoric that you have to either be 100% pro Isreal or 100% pro hamas. It's possible to condemn Hamas while also condemning the treatment of the Palestinian people at the hands of Israel
They've been killing off any members who supported peace with Israel for decades..
- A neutral third party should come in an subjegate both equally! /s

Anybody who has been through a war knows the term "fog of war" is absolutely accurate. The first story is rarely true. But, it's the first story, and it will be believed, due to bias confirmationm, even after it has been disproved.

“A lie can get round the world before the truth has got its boots on.”
But the truth is that these two sides have been killing each other since before my parents were born and I’m too sick of all of it to give a damn. Nothing will stop either of them so maybe if they kill each other entirely we will finally have peace in The Holiest Place on Earth.
Oh wait, no, Christians will still get into fights there.
- I mean, if you want to forget about specific nations, they’ve been keeping this grudge sharp …since what? Late bronze age to early iron?
  Sure the State of Israel has only existed for 75 or so years, but they have a much, much longer history than that- and both Palestinians and Israelites have a very old claim to the land- and both are more less equally valid.
- Terry Pratchett?
What’s sad is all these media companies race each other to be the first one out there. In the digital realm it is simple to offer contractions and edits so they have no reason to wait until all the facts.
Just pump out anything that will generate engagement, who cares if most don’t see the retraction. They got their clicks so they don’t care
https://www.commondreams.org/views/2016/03/02/trump-campaign-bad-america-good-cbs
Man, who would have expected the ride we're all having right now? This is pretty amazing.... Who would have thought that this circus would come to town?
But, you know--it may not be good for America, but it's damn good for CBS, that's all I got to say.
So what can I say? It's--you know, the money's rolling in, and this is fun.
CBS CEO

Yes its a real leap to link the people carpet bombing the area with a hospital being bombed.

They're being very indiscriminate and almost certainly committing a copious amount of war crimes, but what they are doing is not carpet bombing. If it was, there would be nothing left of Gaza by now, and one particular building being bombed would not be noteworthy.
They had actually stopped their air raids before this happened. I am not saying they aren't going to bomb more but I am pointing out that people jumped to point the finger suspiciously fast.
Fucking for real. They've done shit like this before. Before this current war. Maybe the thing people should be disturbed about, is that Israel is so well known for these types of war crimes, that they're the first one everyone thinks of when it happens.
Here's the available evidence of what happened at Al Ahli Arab Hospital in Gaza
- Maybe I’m crazy, but the series of events seems incredibly obvious from the videos linked in that article. A rocket is fired from a position far away from the hospital that seems typical of the ones used by Hamas. Israel intercepted it above the hospital and it broke apart. The explodey bit fell out of the sky and landed near the hospital, making a big boom and killing people.
  This is what happens when you hurl deadly explosives at each other over densely populated areas. Everyone sucks here.
Ok. You know that is a complete lie when you say carpet bombing. But I suppose that is ok to lie. Are you a republican in that your fine with their lies?

What we know

Israel had shelled the hospital 2 times before the attack on Oct 17
Israeli military had demanded the hospital evacuate multiple times before the attack on Oct 17
Israeli military has been hitting hospitals and civilian areas since Oct 17
The majority of the Palestinian rockets do not have the payload to do so much damage
Israeli government has consistently lied about these types of things in the past
IDF Digital Spokesman posted a tweet admitting responsibility for the attack, only to quickly delete it
The sound and damage is consistent with weapons Israel has, for example the MK84

So if we are just to do some basic considerations. Occam's Razor.

If Israel did not hit the hospital then

a) out of all the rockets to misfire, of which we haven't heard of any significant misfires up until now, it had to be the rare and few powerful ones that Palestinians have. This is a low probability event. Much more likely that in a barrage of rockets, the small ones misfire because the overwhelmingly majority is small

b) out of all the places to land, it lands precisely on top of a hospital in precisely a way that kills as many people as possible. Another low probability event. Realistically, the vast majority of failed rockets would land in areas that are not strategically relevant or are not a humanitarian area.

c) this rocket just happens to land on the same exact hospital that Israel had attacked multiple times previously and had demanded evacuation of. another low probability event.

d) israel has been known on multiple occasions to outright lie about something when it looks like they are committing war crimes. during the killing of the journalist, Shireen Abu Akleh the playbook went like this..

Deny something happened
OK, something did happen but it was the Palestinians who did it. Here's a video that proves it
OK, it wasn't the Palestinians. We don't know who did it
OK, we did it but it was an accident because Palestinians were shooting at us. USA does an "investigation with Israeli data" and finds that it was totally accidental and not deliberate.

Independent investigation show that the killing was likely deliberate and nobody was shooting at the Israelis at the time of her death. She was shot in cold blood, in what some people believe is a targeted killing. But at this point, both the US and Israel refuse any criminal investigation.

This playbook, coincidentally, looks very similar to the US's response to their airstrike on a hospital in Afghanistan. Deny, blame the Afghanis, eventually concede it was them and claim it was an accident. No criminal investigations.

Turns out countries that openly preach about their "humanitarian values" have a lot of incentive to lie when events like this get mass media coverage. So, is this a low probability event or a high probability? I don't know.

e) the digital spokesman for the israelis openly admitted to the bombing and then quickly deleted the tweet. is it because he was mistaken or because he was told to delete the tweet? high probability or low probability? I don't know.

Let's do a little formula. LPE = low probability event, UPE = unknown probability event

LPE x LPE x LPE x UPE x UPE

Let's try some different values to get a broad estimate.

LPE = 20% UPE = 50% 0.2 * 0.2 * 0.2 * 0.5 * 0.5 = 0.002 = 0.2%

LPE = 50% UPE = 80% 0.5 * 0.5 * 0.5 * 0.8 * 0.8 = 0.08 = 8%

LPE = 80% UPE = 90% 0.8 * 0.8 * 0.8 * 0.9 * 0.9 = .41 = 41%

So depending on how likely you believe the above events, you can estimate a different probability. For example, if you think that the chances of the Palestinians having their rocket misfire over virtually the worst possible spot it could have is 80%, you may reach a different conclusion than if you believe the chances are actually let's say 20%

The point of the exercise is to show that there's a lot of reason to believe Israel did it and there's a lot of reason to believe Israel is lying (including making up videos, like they've done in the past), and there's a lot of reason to believe the US is blindly backing up their lies (like they've done in the past)

Please don't mistake this for some sort of serious scientific attempt at proving the Israelis wrong. It's just a thought exercise to illustrate the point that for this to have been the Palestinians, there would have had to be a lot of little coincidences. Which CAN happen. Unlikely events happen all the time. But in situations like this, I think we have to be realistic and look at the simplest answer. I personally think it's very likely Israel did it. I don't know, and I don't think we'll ever know.

But maybe in some time we'll have an independent investigation and Israel will ultimately own up to it. Only time will tell.

This is a LOT of mental gymnastics (and made up bullshit) when there is tons of actual, real-world evidence that a terrorist's misfired rocket damaged the hospital, and that the terrorists lied about the casualty numbers.
This is Q-cult level nonsense just to avoid reality man
- Dude, they did MATHS, that's science™.
- Please show me where I made something up. I believe with near 100% certainty that I made mistakes in that comment. If you see one, please tell me.
Math only provides accurate conclusions if the starting assumptions are correct. If you put bullshit in, you get bullshit out.
- That explains the bullshit
I was fully ready to believe Israel was responsible for it because it fits their MO, but the evidence is compelling that it was indeed a misfired rocket. The small crater we’ve seen in photos combined with the large fireball on video is consistent with a small warhead and a hefty charge of leftover propellant. Yes, the probability of such an accident occurring is low, but not zero.
- Yes, the probability of such an accident occurring is low, but not zero.
  I'm actually surprised these sorts of accidents don't happen more often, considering the primitive rocket technology they're using.
- A small crater doesn't mean Israel didn't bomb it. There are ways to blow up bombs that doesn't leave much of a crater. For example, check out this video I just uploaded on imgur. It's a proximity blast - once it gets to a certain elevation above the ground it blows up. This does damage but doesn't leave a crater.
  Also, I uploaded another video which was a sound comparison between the typical Hamas rocket as compared to bombs equipped with the US's JDAM system. JDAM is just a way to turn "dumb bombs" into "smart bombs". read more here. Listen to the sound difference here.
  This doesn't prove anything conclusively, but there is a lot of discussion on the OSINT communities on twitter going on right now and yesterday about this attack on the hospital. There are a lot of smart people arguing for both sides, and I'm not smart nor an expert. In lieu of an independent investigation, I'm going to default to probably Israel just based on my above comment.
- it fits their MO
  Israel consistently does whatever it can to minimize civilian casualties, up to and including assuming more risk for their own soldiers and civilians
b) out of all the places to land, it lands precisely on top of a hospital in precisely a way that kills as many people as possible.
didn't it land in a parking lot? in the pics of the npr article it was at least a building-length away from the hospital
- here's a map of the area showing a rough radius of what the explosion damaged
  we can see the center is somewhere around the parking lot. however, there is damage to the southern roofs of the buildings 45m away. so while perhaps the center radius of the explosion was on top of the parking lot, the reach of the bomb certainly touched the hospital
  however, the reason it killed so many people (i think 500 is probably exaggerated for propaganda, real number probably closer to ~200) is because a lot of people were sheltering outside this hospital around that parking lot. for example west of the parking lot there were many people sleeping on blankets and such. people on the second story of the hospital also got killed.
  it's really hard to get an objective view of the situation right now because the propaganda wings of both sides are out in full force.
  here's a video by aljazeera- https://twitter.com/AJEnglish/status/1714984258358391057
  coincidentally the only news outlet that caught the whole thing live

The mass murder of Palestinians in the last 2 weeks is not disturbing however

I find Fetterman’s allegiance to an apartheid state disturbing.

"The Media shouldn't have rushed to a story and conclusion" is hardly allegiance to Israel.
His only allegiance is to the dripp yo

I'd still say there's a chance it was them.... And it was just the most logical assumption to make.

This is the best summary I could come up with:

called some of his colleagues’ quickness to blame Israel for the hospital blast in Gaza “disturbing” in a statement Wednesday.

“It’s truly disturbing that Members of Congress rushed to blame Israel for the hospital tragedy in Gaza,” Fetterman said in a post on X, formerly Twitter.

In a follow-up post, Fetterman pledged to “always stand with Israel” and said he “look[s] forward to supporting any military, intelligence, or humanitarian aid to get the job done.”

The Democratic senator’s pointed comments come after U.S. intelligence on Wednesday independently determined that a deadly blast at a hospital in Gaza was the result of a failed rocket launch by Palestinian militants, not by an Israeli airstrike.

Some members of Congress reposted reports that blamed Israel for the attack, including Rep. Rashida Tlaib (D-Mich.), who also sharply criticized President Biden for not encouraging a ceasefire.

“We must support Israel in their efforts to eliminate the Hamas terrorists who slaughtered innocent men, women, and children.

The original article contains 474 words, the summary contains 160 words. Saved 66%. I'm a bot and I'm open source!

Liberals are useless.

And the more investigation that comes out the more it's revealed that Israeli government story is wrong: https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/10/19/what-hit-ahli-hospital-in-gaza

Lol aljazeera is where you're getting your news.
- Why not?
The IDF seems incapable of telling the truth, so I don't know whatever they're saying, but evidence is pointing towards a misfire at the moment. I'm not sure if I agree with Al Jazeera's conclusion here, because it would mean the coverage and responsiveness of the iron dome would be insane.

They've already hit 20 hospitals in addition to apartment buildings and schools.

Ok, I'll bite. Source?
- Not sure of the 20 hospitals, but here’s the wire service article about the school being bombed this week.
  https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/least-6-people-killed-israeli-air-strike-unrwa-school-gaza-2023-10-17/
- You have to look deep in his ass… good luck