4mo ago

French Power Price Plunges Below Zero as Solar Swamps the Grid

www.bloomberg.com

cross-posted from: https://lemmy.world/post/27655856

Europe’s booming solar generation is overwhelming the region’s grids, sending power prices slumping far below zero.

26 comments

Why is this always worded in such a shitty way that makes it sound like a bad thing. "swamps the grid" "overwhelming the region" "prices slumping". Fuck all the "energy companies" and their bought politicians and journalists who think or at least talk this way.
Here let me fix it for you: "France now has abundant solar energy, providing free electricity to all homes and businesses that want it, while plenty of solar capacity remains in reserve, available for meeting increased demands or storing for later or night-time use by refilling hydroelectric reservoirs"
- I work for a kind of data provider/dashboard/planing tool for energy grid providers. There is an issue with the "sudden" rise of solar panels and heat pumps and electric cars. Our grid isn't made for this and there needs to be modernised.
  That being said: Yay abundant clean energy!
  
  Solar can be non-destructively disconnected and the remote control infrastructure is there
- Why is this always worded in such a shitty way that makes it sound like a bad thing. “swamps the grid” “overwhelming the region” “prices slumping”.
  I'm happy to provide some real answers to you questions if you're looking for discussion. Some of the answers I don't personally like myself, but they make sense. I say this as a solar advocate as I am happily watching my own solar production climbing with the change of the season.
  If you're just looking to rant though, I won't get in your way.
  
  I appreciate your attempt to engage in good faith, but no, my question was very rhetorical. I am not really interested in discussing any answers to that question that neither you nor I would support. If you do have an argument to make, feel free to do so. I may or may not respond. But in case my own point's not clear, I think most of the opposition to solar panels comes from disingenuous efforts by companies with a financial interest in fossil-fuel, and I think they try to cast it in as negative a light as they possibly can, and I don't think their perspective is even worth considering as they continue their ghastly sprint to destroy the future of life on this planet so they can earn money.
  
  Nah, let'er rip. Just a clueless bystander here. Tell us why capitalism demonizes free energy. We'll pretend to be shocked, surprised and to have learned something new along the way.
  Do keep in mind that "lost profits" are not a real thing in the space we're trying to move in.
- Maybe there is a reason why they use this title. Ofcourse green energy is good, but we have been there for a while. Obviously, not a problem yet in Canada or in the USA. So it seems Europeans should be happy, while ignoring or marginalizing the nuances and problems of the current energy & electricity systems. The grid is congested and causes electricity fall out (Grid congestion is posing challenges for energy security and transitions. Also there are companies being paid to use electricity in energy machines that do absolutely nothing, (except deburden the grid by consuming electricity). And they make good money with that. Ed: in( brackets)
- Although it's not insurmountable with the advent of improved battery storage technology, this kind of dramatic change is an issue for existing baseload infrastructure. The French grid is basically designed around a nuclear baseload which many would already consider 'green.' Nuclear also comes with a very high capital investment, typically from public funds, and energy prices dropping below a certain threshold could impact repayment, public debt and interest costs etc.
- That’s a newspaper headline in a clickbait world.
- because energy grids dont work like that. if you overload them you need to pay extra
Where ate all the "solar is too complicated for s grid!!" people now?
Super good news.
- Don't worry just wait until, checks notes, the sun goes to bed at night. What then France? How will your solar work in clouds? Check and mate.
  
  We concentrated so much on solar energy we completely forgot moon energy, and now, we must pay for that oversight.
- Well, mixed news as others have mentioned. Of course it is great how much solar is installed. But at least in Germany, new installation will require a "killswitch" which disconnects the system in cases where the price goes negative/the grid is overloaded. So the grid/storage cannot really handle renewables yet. On the brightside, this only applies if you are not able to dynamically adjust your system. So with a modern system you can just charge your battery or car instead.
  
  Having zero/negative prices incentivizes programs to incentivize consumers to use energy storage to get cheaper prices. Anyone who uses AC/heaters has at least their residence as a thermal battery and people can do things like shift when they do energy intensive activities as well.
  Also, if you want enough power generation to power through the evening, then having excess generation during the peak generation hours/days is the expectation. When building new solar/wind is less than half the price of building any other form of energy production (even before considering the externalities of most of those other forms of energy production), its still cheaper to "overbuild" by a factor of two to reduce the need for other sources of power and provides the expectation of excess power needed to justify building storage.
- Super good news.
  Maybe... It's good that peak production is so high, but there isn't enough storage to take real advantage of it yet. And even if you're not paying for power generation you still need to maintain power infrastructure. Maintenance isn't free.
  
  Maybe…
  No, it’s still good news despite new problems that may arise.

26 comments