How much of a risk is it for naturalized US Citizens (or those with Derivative Citizenship) to protest against the US government, compared to the risks of natural-born US Citizens doing the same?
Asking because of Mahmoud Khalil is trending...
I don't know if the first amendment still exist anymore 😖
If I was still an American (I gave up my citizenship after Dubya shat the USA Patriot Act) and part of an at-risk group - and there are many - I would seriously consider emigrating at this point.
Don't do like the jews who stayed in Germany after 1933 thinking it can't get any worse: it will get worse and you don't want to be stuck in the US when it's too late to leave.
Curious, what country did you go to, and what eligibility requirement did you meet?
Because AFIAK, there only a few ways:
My parents have a small bussiness here, and like, we can't just thanos snap and move everything.
The only advantage I would have is being Han Chinese so I could blend in and I'm not a minority group that'd get genocided, but I'd still have to shut up and not criticize the government, and if they find out about the shit I've been saying while in the US, I'm fucked either way.
So basically, I can stay in the US and just shut up and don't criticize the government. (And pray that no holocaust v2 happens.)
Or I can try claiming jus sanguinis in PRC and hope they don't know or don't care about the stuff I've been saying in the US, and I also have to shut up and don't criticize the government.
These are my most realistic options.
EU is very unrealistic. Canada is also similar, and about get invaded. Everywhere else is instability and/or authoritarianism.
US being nominally a democracy isn't gonna help with political asylum applications, and by the time the EU takes it seriously, the borders would already be closed.
that sounds like you're talking about permanent immigration.
another easy way to permanently immigrate is to move a place on a tourist or digital nomad visa, and then stay there legally or otherwise until you're allowed to apply for citizenship.
spain and portugal require about $40,000 a year for their digital nomad visas.
The thing is, it's even easier to move without changing citizenship and you can still stick it to the US government.
if you don't change citizenship, and you live outside of the US 11 months out of the year, you don't have to pay taxes on earned income. so you're not supporting the current administration.
The cheapest golden visa is $75,000 for the whole family in the Philippines, btw, not 500k.
I still wouldn't pay that.
I travel full time, you can easily get 3 to 6 month visas in a bunch of countries, Visa-Free travel in the others, live permanently abroad, legally avoid US taxes and enjoy a much lower cost of living in countries that aren't tearing themselves and their constitution apart.
Curious, what country did you go to
I lived in many countries. The one I went to when I left the US was the UK. But it was in Europe back then. I would never move there now.
Because AFIAK, there only a few ways
You missed mine 🙂 I had dual citizenship. I simply gave one up. I had to pay the extortion racket but other than that, that's all I had to do.
Also, if you're trans or not male or female (some people are born with extra X and Y chromosomes, which flies in the face of the administration's idiotic male / female classification), you've basically become a non-person in the US. As such, I'm fairly sure you could make a convincing case for asylum in many European countries.
Marrying someone means nothing. They're taking people with green cards who are married to Americans and are making them disappear.
My parents have a small bussiness here, and like, we can’t just thanos snap and move everything.
Remember that many jews said the same thing in Germany before the war, until they realized it really was time to get out of Dodge and they couldn't.
Australia and NZ also exist, those countries are likely fine in that no major global trade routes go through there (unlike the Arctic), so that mitigates the risk of war over there. Those I've read somewhere on r/IWantOut that some countries like Australia have a list of medical conditions that would mean one is not allowed to emigrate there.
England/the UK I haven't read much, but that's about as far as one can go, aside from Canada; to go elsewhere means learning a new language is outright required.
I'm in a similar position as OP, and trying to leave with someone else would be even more trickier. Even Canada is very limited in how many family members/friends/relatives that one can sponsor or emigrate with.
I'd feel like being of Chinese descent is more of a liability. If the PRC goes after Taiwan, I could totally see the cheeto crowd go after my ethnicity and be a repeat of what happened in WWII.
I just hope any one country will start allowing asylum seekers to get out before it's too late, but I won't hold my breath given that everywhere in the developed world seems to have a housing crisis all at once.
What about people who can't relocate because they're poor, don't have dual citizenship, have nowhere to go, have felonies, etc?
We know it will get worse. Our persons are already owned by the US. We know the history and we've read their playbooks.
There's no organization, no real solidarity, no strategy for opposition.
The people who think they'll be safe from it won't help us entrench, and people who already got out won't help us get out.
If no consequence comes for not following court order it wouldn't matter if you were Hunter Biden, they could deport you and no one could stop them.
And this is the real crux of the issue. If there are no penalties for ignoring the court order, then we have already entered the “we need to start lighting dome-topped buildings on fire” phase of protests. Because if the judicial branch is truly being ignored, then there is nothing to stop it from escalating to straight up “Secret Police disappearing citizens in the dark of night for having dissenting opinions” levels.
One important thing for people to think about right now is "what happens when other countries don't accept deportees?"
They start to stack up. Housing, feeding, and guarding "dangerous undesirables" is expensive.
Surely, it would be patriotic to save your country money...
It might be too late. It might not, who's to say. Videos from this weekend have a very familiar ring to them though.
If you are not a straight white man, you will be flirting with deportation. It might get reversed later, and they might "deport" you to a country you have never been, but it will still be a life-changing event.
If you are going to protest, remember to wear a face-covering, never give anyone your full name, leave your cellphone at home, and wear something you can run in.
Also, make sure to be generic. Choose cheap, common clothing that won't stick out
Not American, so take with a grain of salt. However...
Frankly, if you're a naturalized citizen at all, you should already be looking over your shoulder and feeling scared right now. They're deporting legal residents because they don't like the tattoos they have. They're disappearing people for being 2SLGBTQ+.
So either you hide, you run, or you stand up. The only real difference is that standing up will make it easier to catch you - but the end result will be the same.
You're fine for now. Keep protesting, but keep your head in the game if they government starts changing their tactics.
They are going to go after "violent" situations first, so try to avoid those.
Protesting is the least useful form of collective action. Dont worry if you cant participate in it directly. Its not materially useful.
What you need to do is organize locally and hold your local reps to the fire. Ensure your local elections are run fairly, etc etc.
Help run info ops for naturalized citizens who are comfortable taking direct action. Gather information and make it publicly available. Could be as simple as locating all the charging stations in your state for example. Or dossiers on particularly disgusting ceos.
Plenty of things you can do without directly exposing yourself.
Right now, I’d say absolutely don’t do it. Especially don’t do it if you live in a red state, or are in/near one of the “flashpoint” areas/institutions that are making splashy headlines now.
It’s fucked up, but that’s pragmatic advice. If you cannot deal with the possibility of being illegally detained and deported with zero recourse, you really do need to keep your head down right now, regardless of your skin color… but at the same time, be doubly careful if you’re not white.
I can’t believe I’m writing this about the United States.
Yea thanks, I was probably never gonna protest anyways, I'm not that brave lol, but I was just asking since I'm curious what were the risks for someone like me to do so.
I'm kinda feeling like Snowden at the moment. I mean like: You can criticize the government of your former country (for me that's PRC), but kinda have to keep a low profile when it comes to the government of your current country. So yea I kinda understand what Snowden is going through.
The first amendment might be dead, but the second one isn't. Exercise it.
Absolutely none from the government. We aren't like Canada, the UK, or Australia. We actually have freedom of speech here.
Legally none, but given that were no longer governed by law, no idea. I would say talk to a civil rights lawyer if you are a Naturalized citizen and want to participate in your first amendment rites.