6mo ago

Apple TV Privacy over Roku?

I know Smart TV privacy concerns are a big conversation here, largely because there’s practically no good way to jailbreak a Smart TV, but I wanted to ask about a specific use case.

How much better is it to disable all network connectivity on a smart tv (running Roku as its core OS) and hook an Apple TV box up to it?

More or less, I suppose what I’m asking is whether or not using an Apple TV is as private as it can get with easy-to-use streaming devices?

34 comments

of the two, common sense media says apple is better from a privacy standpoint.
and, if i had a roku-powered tv, i'd skip the internet on it (never hook it up) and use an external device, even if it was just a roku stick.
- https://foundation.mozilla.org/en/privacynotincluded/categories/entertainment/
  The Mozilla guide agrees
  Apple and Nvidia Shield are better about it than Roku/Fire
  
  I used to have a Shield. I donated it to GoodWill when Nvidia updated their UI to start showing ads on the Home Screen. I switched to Apple TV and not only does it not force me to watch ads, it’s actually just been a better overall. I haven’t had a single issue streaming anything from Plex to my Apple TV, where sometimes the Shield would struggle with high fidelity audio tracks.
  
  The shield is a million times better since you can get around ads and other privacy violations.
  Good luck trying that with any Apple mobile or TV device.
- Sadly that evaluation trusts what Apple says, not what Apple does.
  With the stagnation of iPhone growth, Apple has turned to services and there's nothing more profitable than selling access to people.
I'm sorry I can't speak for Apple TV, but I do know Roku. I captured about a month of DNS with a Roku device on the network. It phones home about everything. Even better, they hardcoded the DNS server on the device to prevent tampering with ads in their menus. I had to set up a redirect to quarantine it before eventually taking it off the network completely.
Last I recall, the most private method for general streaming was a cheap Android device from Walmart with a custom OS installed on it.
- cheap Android device from Walmart with a custom OS
  they had a pile of these on closeout last time i wandered through electronics, ima have to make a trip tomorrow to see exactly what they are. from venturing over to the xda forums, it would appear that i'm looking for the 2021 or 2023 models? i don't have pocket internet, so i've got to jot down a few notes of what to look for.
- Beware I have heard that the latest revision of the Onn 4k box locks down the bootloader and prevents people from doing this as they found out and obviously wanted that data. Specifically I believe only models from before 2024 (should be model number that indicates this) still work with this.
Yes. An Apple TV will be about as private as you can get for something that supports mainstream streaming apps (running a mini-pc won't allow better than 720p quality and you'll struggle to get remotes to work, it'll be a clunky experience via web browsers often). It will be a lot better than a smart TV, especially a Roku who are among the worst.
If you want a bit more privacy consider running a pihole and redirecting DNS traffic at your firewall to your pihole or blocking all DNS traffic not from your pihole. I run a firewall solution that includes DNS redirection and blocking and there are a lot of measurement endpoints for streaming apps that you can block without the app breaking so that's another little ounce. This doesn't require a ton more effort though it is more effort it can be a set and forget type of thing. Importantly this does not block in-app ads.
For me the fact they don't have any ads is what sells me on it. I don't want ads on my homescreen. I don't even want them in the apps but getting that peace and lack of clutter on the homescreen is so nice.
Apple TVs are also just so smooth. Smart TV's feel sluggish and pathetic compared to how well everything just works on a device that's properly powered for the task and not constantly sucking up all your data.
Apple TVs also have a lot of Apple privacy settings though obviously some of them apps may not allow like many streaming apps require a location check at least intermittently for licensing reasons to prove you're still in the country but you can limit it as much as possible.
If you have a decent wifi network and you know you're not going to be streaming say homemade BluRay rips the wifi entry model is excellent (currently it supports wifi 6 and has a really good wifi chip). I personally run Plex and a media server so I choose the wifi+ethernet model to have the reliability of ethernet and don't regret it but it's understandable if your situation precludes being able to use a wired connection or you want to save the $20 extra they charge.
- Putting this here as another comment so as to not get too lengthy in my original reply:
  The only other things I can recommend in the streaming space would be Dune-HD's products which are more expensive than Apple TV (though not more than Nvidia shield pro) and are not quite as simple and easy to use but do offer customization and a nice virtualized linux+androidtv system on some of their models AND maybe the Nvidia Shield Pro with caveats. But I have a bit of a bone to pick with the Shield for a number of reasons:
  Price. They haven't updated the hardware in 5 years and have changed it from a premium product without ads to standard AndroidTV with ads on the homescreen yet charge the same $200 price, meanwhile Apple dropped the price on their AppleTV and is eating their lunch with annual hardware updates and regular software updates that bring new functionality
  Features. The shield still has bugs around things like framerate switching while AppleTV does not nor does Dune-HD's products
  The lack of updates, the move from a premium android experience without homescreen ads to one with ads. I feel it could be killed off any moment, they're just lazily milking the product which is probably the only reason they haven't. You /can/ with some effort alter the launcher to a 3rd party launcher to lose the ads but it's not easy, it usually requires revisiting and you can do the same thing with the Dune-HD products and they care a lot more and offer a lot more IMO.
  The only reason you might really prefer Dune-HD over an Apple TV is the ability to side-load a modded youtube app if you use that a ton but even that feels up in the air with how hard Google is going in their war on anyone using things like that and how successful they've been against it. You can't block ads in ad-supported major streaming services (Netflix, Max, Hulu, Disney+, etc), neither with pihole nor any other way I'm aware of.
- I dump Blu-rays either directly to BDMV or MKV (TV shows) on a wired NAS; streaming to Apple TV via Infuse is super smooth.
  
  Yeah they include a gigabit ethernet port which is really useful for full quality 4k, amazing how many cheaper streaming devices only have 10/100 ports which I suppose is adequate if all you do is stream Netflix.
  But to me it's just cheaping out to save a dollar or two on the manufacturer's part that with ethernet & protocol overhead could result in problems potentially even for 1080p streams. Whereas gigabit even with overhead and lackluster conditions you're going to get 700-800mbps sustained. People think for 1080p bluray dumps for instance that oh bitrates are only around 40-50mbps average but if you fast forward, if you're seeking around the actual bitrate being consumed jumps to double or more at times and that 100mbps port will choke on that and buffer whereas the gigabit will not flinch. And though I don't use the playback speed option myself much Infuse does allow playing back at 1.5 and 2x speeds which consume around 1.5x and 2x the bitrate respectively.
  But it's just nice to not have to deal with wireless hiccups too.
Apple is closed source and has proven to be anti-consuner and has sold personal data. They cannot be trusted. Use Kodi on a RPi or a laptop.
- I have to ask... Are you actually happy with Kodi? Did you find a way to make it more usable?
  I set it up on a RPi, got Netflix and Amazon working on it, and I really, REALLY wanted to like it...
  But I just can't. The interface is awful. The sorting is nonsensical. You have to manually enable thumbnails. You can change it, but you have to change it for every interface. And then it doesn't remember, so you have to go through all that again the next time you use it.
  Sorry if I sound whiny, but I'd love to know if you got it to be more usable than I could.
  
  It took me some time to understand how to modify the UI but once I figured it out I now have it setup really nicely. It's very intuitive now and my wife has no problem interacting with the UI.
  I could never get Netflix working (not really a big deal) and I can't get YouTube or Invidious working which is quite annoying.
  Ultimately to answer your question I really enjoy Kodi. I could send you some screenshots later and help you out if you want.
- Yes. More people need to realize that Apple is less transparent but not necessiarily that user oriented in areas such as privacy and security.
- You said it all
Best bet would be to use an old laptop/mini pc or something similar and run a linux distro running a vpn or something. Check out what this person did:
https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2024/07/broken-linux-laptop-makes-for-a-fine-smart-tv-alternative/
As much as i hate Apple closed source ecosystem, they do alot to protect user privacy (as far as we know) and put in effort to allow users to have the options to turn app tracking off etc. so an Apple TV unit on a dumb TV might be another option...But, when it becomes obsolete in a few years and the apps dont work...hand over more cash...
- at least you're just replacing the 'box' and not the whole tv. which is one of the main benefits of not using the 'smart' inside the tv, and using an external device instead. cheaper to upgrade the 'smart' part.
  i mostly use old cheap laptops with ulv soc (about 6 watts with lid down, screen off). has worked for me, so far. have a compact wireless keyboard with integrated trackpad (the older logi one) for a 'remote'. on the tv i also have a full-fledged desktop attached to one input.. why do client-server when i can hook the 'server' right up?
- Frankly, just build a new full up Linux workstation in a media center case. You want to be able to run a browser and a media center app, and use it as your home server for things like nextcloud, etc. Been doing it this way for 20 years.
  Edit: For remote control a wireless key board is great. KDE Connect works well now too.
- Apple does NOT protect user privacy.
  
  oof
- they do alot to protect user privacy (as far as we know)
  They do nearly nothing to so. Kuketz has analyzed what's happening when turning some settings that are bad for privacy off. The result: Apple still phones home with respect to the disabled services.
  So please stop throwing wrong information
  
  what is Kuketz?
This is what I’ve been doing for years - since the Apple TV came out, actually. I detest “smart” TVs, but the world has decided that’s my only option now. The first thing I do with a new Tv (I actually just upgraded mine recently) is disable the internet and turn off absolutely everything I can in whatever shit OS they are using. I plug in the Apple TV, set the input to that, and that’s it. It just works™️
I’m very concerned about privacy issues generally but am pretty comfortable with Apple’s stated and perceived privacy. If you’re paying for quality hardware and services through them, they have little incentive to sell you out – unlike pretty much every other tech company out there (I’m looking at you, Google).
The Apple TV is wicked fast (faster than any other TV OS or box I’ve ever seen) and has absolutely zero ads, zero cruft, and requires zero maintenance. If you are at all in the Apple universe with other devices, it’s perfectly seamless and tough to beat. I highly recommend it.
I know a bunch of Android/linux/Windows/Whatever-heads are gonna jump in and list a bunch of features or customizations the Apple to doesn’t have or can’t do… ya, that may be true but if that’s important to you… then don’t fucking buy it. Not everyone has the same use case as you. When I want to watch TV, I wanna watch TV – not update my Linux distro or whatever else I’ve hodge-podged together. I’ve built my own HTPCs and PVRs and, frankly, know this stuff inside-out. For me, and probably millions of others, nothing comes close to the Apple TV in terms of price, time commitment, simplicity, functionality AND privacy.
That will* work.
*actually figure out what you’re trying to maintain privacy from and set up your icloud account appropriately.
AppleTV is smooth but as others pointed out you shouldn’t trust their claims that they’re private. They’re probably more private than e.g. Google out of the box, but not an actual privacy company.
Side note: in case you’re an Apple user and you weren’t aware of this, you can make it a bit better by obtaining your private key so that you have actual E2EE and you can add hardware keys for 2FA which makes it more secure. Of course this should be the bare minimum but it’s nice that they support these things out of the box.
Regarding metadata: https://support.apple.com/en-us/102651#%3A%7E%3Atext=This+metadata+is+always+encrypted%2CAdvanced+Data+Protection+is+enabled.
Maybe it’s worth checking if you’re okay with what kind of metadata they’re processing.
This is what I do. You have to be in one eco system at some level these days and Apple painted themselves into a corner with their privacy marketing. Rather only give info to one. Nothing a smart TV does can’t be done on my Apple TV plus Apple TV adds a lot of features if you are an Apple user on other devices.
- Apple painted themselves into a corner with their privacy marketing
  That's the cool thing about marketing, you can lie to the plebs and then do crime to fuck them over, daddy Sam ain't gonna do shit anyway.
  
  I guess it’s a matter of degrees like everything. If they have to give the appearance of privacy, they will concede towards privacy more than say Google who just fucks privacy on the bus in front of you. Unless you go 100% open Linux on every single device, which is hard for most people, you will have some compromises to make. I am still teaching myself Linux.

34 comments