The Zionist logic

Obligatory reminder that when Polish envoy Jan Karski presented evidence of holocaust to British and US government and societal elites during his mission in 1942 and 1943 he was basically ignored.

Additional reminder that Hitler's invasion of Europe was tolerated by the major powers riiiiight up until he invaded one of the "countries that actually matter".
Additional additional reminder that the major powers initially PRAISED Hitler for killing all the communists.
- additional reminder that when the allies liberated the concentration camps, they put everyone with a pink triangle back.
- How is this different from invasion of Ukraine 2014?
  Well Ukraine deserved it because "Nazis"
But the meme is about the comparison of the same people looking back and looking at the present.
- And it's a weird choice too because there are better comparisons that can be made with current world events.

Let's not pretend that the Nazis didn't have a massive amount of support (and still does). Reminder that the vast majority of Germans at the time were in full support of the Holocaust in the same way that the vast majority of Israelis are in full support of the genocide in Palestine. Badmouthing the Holocaust in any of the Axis Powers countries would have been met with the same kind of backlash, and people in the Anglosphere just don't want to admit that the societies we live in are the new Axis Powers and do in fact want the Palestinians exterminated the same way that Nazi Germany wanted the Jews exterminated.

The vast majority of Germans did not know about the death camps. They were under the impression that the Jews were held in labour and prison camps and only learned about the genocide towards the end of the war, around 1943.
My (great)grandparents were in the Dutch resistance and saved many people, including Jews. They thought they were saving them from labour and prison camps.
They also only learned about the death camps towards the end of the war when news of it started leaking out. This made them even more resolved to save whom they could, which was hard in the Dutch famine in the 1944/1945 winter. They gave away a lot of food that winter.
Neither they, nor the Germans, could do much more than that. Trying to protest the Holocaust would lead to immediate arrest by the Nazi's.
Also, even the Nazi's didn't know about the Holocaust until the 1942 Wannsee conference where they invented it as "the final solution". By that time the war had entered its third year.
My point is, unlike the Israelis today, the German public as whole at that time can only be accused of being complicit in genocide, during a period where they themselves were under martial law. They can not be accused of supporting genocide while still enjoying civil rights.
Which is why I have more disdain for the Israelis today.
- Let’s call it a cluster fuck that has been going on for 100s of years. And will continue well past your and my deaths.
  Then. We. Should. Stop. Arming. Israel.
  Because as it stands now, Western countries are not just complicit in genocide, they're actively helping to perpetuate it. Your tax dollars are being used to exterminate an ethnic group. Mine too.
  If we were to ACTUALLY call it a clusterfuck and walk away, that would be BETTER than what we're doing right now.
- Israel is founded on Settler-Colonialism of Palestine, it has a century long history in its current iteration. Just like the US genocide of indigenous peoples, Israelis are committing genocide against Palestinians and stealing their land. Equating them is to erase this very central fact, Israel cannot exist without genocide and Settler-Colonialism, while Palestine can. Trying to pretend there's a deep, several century long history of the current fascist Israeli state is false.
- Let’s call it a cluster fuck that has been going on for 100s of years
  Lets not, because you're flat out lying about that, bangcrash. 100 years. Not hundreds. In the ~800 years of the ottoman empire this wasnt happening, and that empire ended in November 1922.
  Zionists like to lie about this history to make it seem like an intractable problem of ethnic hatred, but its self serving BS driven by 80 years of apartheid by Israel on the people living in that region, starting with the Zionist terrorism leading up to the Nakba.
  The UN needs to admit they royally effed up in creating Israel back in 1948, and walk that back. Zionist terrorists have no right to be known as an israeli state in 1948, and no right to treat human beings in this manner from then until today. Israel needs to be disolved and the Israelis sent back to Russia and Europe where they came from. 80 years is enough. the ongoing injustice and genocide needs to end before the Israelis kill every non-jew in the region.
  If the UN cannot or will not do that they are criminals themselves and should disolve in shame.
- Genocide apologia spotted

Genocide is bad no matter who it happens to??

Genocide is bad no matter who does it??
- Genocide is bad, full stop.

.

The Neoliberals supporting the white colonist state very overtly because of the ethnicity of the people that state claims to represent, have always been as Racist as the Fascists, they just passed themselves as anti-Racist by focusing on telling us that whole races are inherently better and deserving of better treatment than other races, whilst the Fascists tend to focus on telling us bad things about races (though, if you pay attention, the Fascists too claim that those of certain races are inherently better and deserving of better treatment).

The Racism isn't the telling bad things about a race, it's the assumption that all people of a race are the same, equally worthy or unworthy and deserving of different treatment for no reason other than the race they were born in - it's a form of dehumanization of individuals which, if you look more broadly at the suffering the Neoliberals are willing to inflict on billions of people in the Economic field in order to profit from it, is really just one facet of their general Sociopath posture towards the rest of Humanity, complete with deceit, manipulation and gaslighting.

What the Zionist Genocide - a most appalling sociopathic savagery openly committed by those the Neoliberals claim as the representatives of an ethnicity which they deem "good" - and the support of it by the Neoliberals very overtly due to the ethnicity of those committing those acts, have made very clear to everybody else is that the Neoliberal form of Racist is just as extreme as the Fascist one, and being anchored on exactly the same view of people as "etnics" rather than individuals, easily turns into the same kind of Evil: because it's entirely anchored on Prejudicial and Discriminatory views not Logic (even though they disguise their Racism by claiming it's just a logical "helping a group which is a victim of oppression"), when the "representatives" of those they see as "good races" act in even the most Evil of ways the Neoliberals just keep on supporting them far beyond the point to which the argumentation they used in their claims of anti-Racism (such as "helping a group which is a victim of oppression") can stretch.

This is the point at which we are now: their Racism together with the actions of the "representatives" of a "good" race has stretched the Neoliberal "we're really against-Racism" so far it uncovered the real dark nature of what lies under it.

Mods, ya gotta stop being so fucking trigger happy. I want to see what this person said.
- I thought mod logs are public on Lemmy? Can't you go see them?
- You can click on the little arrow on the righternmost of up/down vote buttons and from the popup menu choose the comment moderation history, it would show you the content of removed post.
I do not condemn the Gaza Palestinian prison break of October 7, 2023.
Palestinians have the legal right under UN law to struggle against their occupiers by any means necessary, including armed struggle, while Israel, as an occupier, has no right to “self defense.”
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zionism_as_settler_colonialism
Philosophy prof. Hans-Georg Moeller: 📺 Guilt Pride: A German Vanity Project Conquering the World
- Reporter: [REDACTED]
  Reason: The guy is endorsing killing of civilians
  Who do you think the reports go to, reporter?
Condemn? I commend freedom fighters taking military action against settler colonial ethnocentric apartheid genociders.
Do you also condemn the ANC?
- To clarify I only meant the attacks on civilians. There will never be a way to justify the senseless killing of those. There are other ways than violence to get rid of them. Ofc the whole situation in Gaza is fucked beyond comparison but there has to be another way on the world political stage to resolve this instead of letting it cook like we now do.

I feel like this would be less strawmanny if the kid was saying "ethnic nationalism is evil" instead. Because while no one's actually defending "genocide", lots of people do defend zionism and the definition of zionism is basically white nationalism, but specific to jews.

The problem is that people have equated Israel to genocide to jewish people in general. So if you criticize the genocide the listener is free to imply you are critical of jewish people, therefore an antisemite.

It doesn’t get any clearer than opposing a genocide but you choose to be complicit because Palestinians and their supporters are burning the flag of the government enabling their mass slaughter

When you ask people what they would do if they had a time machine, a lot of them would mention "go back in time and kill Hitler". But I've been having this thought lately - and I know it's deeply problematic and inconsistent - but what if Hitler actually was from the future and decided to travel back in time to prevent the genocide that Israel is currently executing.

Hitler is the reason why Jews were able to colonize Palestine and why US and EU enbled them and do so to this day.
Shoulda let him be a fucking artist tbh
They're quoting this comedy sketch. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pKw8Y4AzH_Y&t=339
- Wow! I have not seen that standup routine or heard anyone mention those thoughts before. I'm very glad that I am not alone with having that problematic idea pop into my head.
  And I - just like Daniel Fernandes - should clarify that I do not under any circumstance attempt to white wash Hitler. It's merely a stray thought which makes a crazy plot line.

But, I will say that the Jews in Nazi Germany weren’t committing random acts of brutality against German civilians
Neither are the vast majority of Palestinians doing that to Israelis.
and had never officially pledged in writing to eradicate all the german
See above.
Your comment is not dissimilar from the "all Jews want to destroy the German race" bulllshit the Nazis spewed. Both are sweeping, malicious generalizations that aim to justify the oppression and collective punishment of entire ethnic groups.
What a shock, a .worlder advocating for collective punishment and excusing genocide.
- But who is the responsible party here? Who first began spouting out rhetoric of annihilation towards a whole ethnic group? Zionists, go back to theodore herzel and the original middle eastern terrorist groups Haganah, palmach and lehi who were responsible for dozens of violent attacks and killed an estimated 6-8000 Palestinian jews, Christians and muslims as well as occupying British forces. In the years before the israeli occupation began These terrorist groups were then simultaneously condemned by the newly established israeli government while their military absorbed their leadership and members into their newly formed military apparatus. Im not saying hamas’s actions are any less awful, but international law does state that indigenous populations have a right to defend themselves by any means necessary and they are clearly defending themselves when you see the ratio of casualties was in the 20 to 1 range and that was before Israel used the 10-7-23 attack as pretense to unleash an all out annihilation of the Palestinian population in gaza and around other settler projects as well.
  Israel bears responsibility here and ignoring this while saying “hamas is bad” and “do you condemn hamas” just shows a level of ignorance that is astoundingly absurd. When israel is clearly guilty of rhetoric and actions that are objectively worse but holding hamas to a standard that israel is free from being measured against. What planet are we on here?
Get outta here with yer facts and history!

My 13 year old daughter was called a Nazi at school because she's of Jewish descent. Not Israeli, Jewish.

But don't let that stop your enjoyment of this strawman comic that pretends like anti semitism plays Zero part in the reaction

Zionists have hijacked Judaism. This reminds me when Arabs and Muslims were expected to apologize for Alqaeda.
If that happened, huge if these days, that's awful. Doesn't excuse the genocide Israel is doing, doesn't stop the fact Israel needs to be completely dismantled.
Every modern ethnostate so far has committed genocide. Ethnostates are bad.
The argument isn't "antisemitism doesn't exist". The argument is "criticism of Israel is not antisemitism".