Win? Move further right. Lose? Move further right.

I'll never understand why people think the people running the DNC aren't total fucking liars that will say anything for money.

Beating trump isn't hard.

But beating him while grifting a billion dollar campaign funded by the people your voting base hates is very difficult.

Unfortunately when confronted with the choice, the DNC has shown us three elections straight that they'll always pick money over votes.

So we either need to leave the party or replace leadership.

If we don't do either 2028 will be exactly the same as the last three elections.

Bold to assume we will have another election
- Don't you worry, you'll have an election. Even the Germans had elections during their darkest times. That doesn't mean you'll have a choice though.
- I lived thru 9/11 and 2016.
  For over 20 years everytime a republican became president I've been told we'll never have another election.
  Maybe this time the wolf is real, but it's a basic part of human psychology that more and more people will stop having a fear response everytime they hear "wolf".
  If we really don't have an election in 2028, we'll have a civil war before 2032. Maybe what comes after will be better than what we have now.
  It sucks to live in interesting times, but that's what's happening.
  This is literally the day after the election, don't fucking tell me it's too late to plan how to fix shit for 2028
So we either need to leave the party or replace leadership.
I think at this point, leaving is the only way forward. The DNC/ the DCCC have shown that even given effectively infinite money, they don't have the competence to win elections. They are always willing to rat-fuck popular candidates in favor of establishment candidates. There is no fixing this with Citizens United in place.
- Find your local/state Dems, get involved with them, figure out who the conservatives are and replace them... It's not hard, like 10 people vote in those elections... They are the ones who elect DNC leadership, take the local and state parties, take the DNC
Beating trump isn’t hard.
He won three out of four primaries, and two out of three general elections. It seems... pretty fucking hard.
- Only hard for those as incompetent as the dnc
people have been beating this drum for decades and i, for today only, am wondering if it's having any impact despite it being completely true and easy to see.
- It won't. If there's anything I've learned, it's that a large majority of the Democratic Party voter base is just as dumb and addicted to propoganda as the GOP's. The people who are so happy to call anyone with a genuine critique a Russian shill, who believed that Biden had to lead the ticket "no matter what," who cheered when Harris went further right to snap up conservative voters; these people also treat politics like a sport and think their side can do no wrong. They feel smug and superior because "they're not dumb enough to vote for Trump," as if that makes them immune to propoganda.
  My plan is to leave. Maybe other countries have a chance still, but the U.S. does not.
Oh wise one, what would you have done different? Explain the ways to me so we can understand.
Find your local/state Dems, get involved with them, figure out who the conservatives are and replace them... It's not hard, like 10 people vote in those elections... They are the ones who elect DNC leadership, take the local and state parties, take the DNC
- Lol, you haven't heard what the "victory fund" really is yet, have you?
  The state parties have to toe the line, or they're abandoned.
  Terrible strategy if the plan is getting Dems in office, great move if you're blocking any real progress in exchange for ~~bribes~~ donations.

MOVE LEFT DAMMIT

Capitalism will continue shifting right until there is only fascism.
- The beatings will continue until morale improves
- Historically, yes. Thankfully, history is known to not repeat itself.

do you risk nominating candidates who then can't appeal

Here's a wild idea. Let the voters nominate their own candidates in a primary without tons of interference from the DNC and super delegates. Or you know, just allow a primary at all.

Nooooo, can't have that. Then you guys might pick the wrong candidate, you see?
- Exactly. They'd rather lose with their chosen candidate than win with ours.

I say this as a woman who is pretty bummed to say this.

I don’t think women candidates can win over enough men to get votes on a national level. Radicalized men aren’t ever going to empathize with women and sure as hell aren’t going to vote for one anytime soon.

Obviously there is a lot more than that, but it’s a big part of it.

I still think it was policy and not gender :/
But I understand that the evidence isn't exactly clear on this.
- Exactly.
  Harris was dead last on my preferred candidate list in 2020, and it had nothing to do with her gender and everything to do with how little I trusted her due to her background as a cop. And she got hammered in the primaries that year, so I'm certainly not alone. I didn't like her performance as VP (she had a pretty poor public opinion score up until she became the candidate for Pres), and she certainly didn't convince me that she had any interesting policies this time around.
  Likewise for Hillary Clinton. She was dead last on my preferred candidate list long before she won the nomination, and she didn't get any better after winning.
  In both 2016 and 2024, I voted for a third party because neither major candidate interested me (and it didn't matter because Trump won my state by ~20% in each election anyway). I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of people who would have voted Democrat didn't bother voting or voted for a third party because they found her uninteresting. Her policies suck, her campaign sucked, and she has pretty much no charisma. It has nothing to do with her being a woman and everything to do with her being a crappy candidate.
  So my vote is on a mixture of:
  no real primary, just a candidate switch (feels very undemocratic)
  poor, vague policies, especially on the issues people seem to care about most (inflation)
  very little charisma
  weird obsession with getting celeb endorsements instead of appealing to the average person
  Being female doesn't register at all.
- It would be foolish to say that gender wasn't a factor, but I don't think it was the deciding factor.
- It’s definitely both but it’s starting to look clearer that a man can potentially overcome the potential policy issue and a woman just can’t.
- Apparently the gop doesn't need a policy to win. Harris lost to someone who just promised vague amounts of success without literally a single concrete plan in place. Maybe the dems just need to treat the voters like they're the dumbest fucking people on the planet and promise everything will turn to rainbows and unicorn shit with nothing to back it up.
  Legalize weed, provide universal health care, give a job with a million dollar salary to every single citizen, create high speed rail across the entire country, fix the ecosystem, stop every war on earth, approve an annual day where you can legally slap your boss, etc etc. Then if asked for specifics just say they have concepts of a plan.
  Why should dems bother doing anything concrete? Seems like the country is dumb enough to vote for anyone who tells people what they want to hear.
Americans choosing Trump twice instead of a moderate woman candidate is all the proof I need that the country won't have a woman become president in my lifetime.
- I don't think Hillary Clinton was rejected primarily because she was a woman but primarily because she was about as establishment as it gets in an election that was shaping up early on as an anti-establishment election.
- Omar would have done better than Harris. And she's the 'scary communist'. And Muslim. But she has actual policy and very clearly communicates it. That's literally the baseline for any candidate for any race, and somehow Harris fucked it up. Stop running candidates who only see regular people on TV and maybe you'll get a win.
- I think a lot of people just realized that. I would be surprised to see one even do well in a primary in the next decade.
Radicals by definition aren't the majority.
Women don't empathize with men, women treat men as disposable, men are blamed for everything wrong in the country. The Ds didn't even think to try to appeal to men until the end when they realized "oh shit, we actually need to make an effort to get male votes" It's not a surprise that Trump appealed to men, he was the candidate talking to them.
- Honestly, I’m about to get downvoted and I don’t mean to be offensive but I’m going to say how I feel.
  I’m sorry men are having a hard time, but I don’t care. Men have been on top of the world for all of history and now they are upset because they have to share.
  Everyone else has been having a hard time for much longer and if men are having a bad time right now, I guarantee everyone else is suffering a lot more.
  And factually, they don’t need male voters to win. Female voters have outnumbered men since 1964 which should tell you something. Women are willing to vote for men, but men can’t be fucking bothered to support women. I’m done walking on eggshells around male egos because men can’t handle their emotions.
  Note: I’m aware not every man or woman is like this. I’m generalizing to make a point. There are a lot of great men in my life who don’t feel emasculated when women ask to be respected. And, there are plenty of women that are hurtful to each other.

What primaries?

Blow it up. The DNC is never going to get it, just blow up the party.

Sounds nice. How?
- Seems halfway done to me

The numbers on that screen contradict the conclusion (of the media): IND voters are rising and DEM voters are decreasing. Those IND are not more conservatives, they're the Cornell's and the Stein's and such (I know, Russian plant, not the point, voters are not right wing). The left wing is leaving the DEM, you don't get them back by moving right. What the fuck is NBC talking about?

Not sure I agree with your assumption of IND. Many of us don't want to be locked to a party for the primaries.

Why do the republicans love the RNC no matter what and the democrats hate the DNC no matter what?

For a long time, they didn't. The RNC was legendarily attacked by the Tea Party movement, by Trump during the 2016 primaries, and continued to be slated by MAGA up to the point it was wholly taken over by Trump.
because when the Republican Party wasn't serving the "needs" of it's racist, xenophobic, misogynistic voter base, it was murdered and skinned by the Tea Party, who has gleefully worn the skin ever since.
Progressives have never done the same for the DNC, they've just let it continue being the same old shitty party for two decades. Every time they drift further rightward, people complain, and then forget.
- Progressives have never done the same for the DNC, they’ve just let it continue being the same old shitty party for two decades. Every time they drift further rightward, people complain, and then forget.
  I disagree on that part. Everyone is just fucking tired trying to save the country from our fellow dummies. We are just trying to survive and have no idea of what to do.
Because one delivers on its promises. They promise hate and divisiveness and deliver in kind. Democrats promise hope when what we need is action.
- Maybe it's the fact that America's national character is to lust for domination and revenge. Compassion cannot win because America despises it.
- What action do you think we should do? Real talk. The government has been taken over a long time ago by anti-democracy peeps, how do we get it back?
The DNC suppresses leftist voices and demands leftist votes.
I don't love or hate the DNC but I do hate the RNC.
- I don't love or hate either, I'm largely disappointed by both. I'm disappointed w/ the RNC for allowing Trump to happen, and I'm disappointed with the DNC for forcing Harris to happen.
  Since my vote is a lock-in for Trump (he won w/ like ~60% of the vote in each election), I vote for third party/independent candidates, because both major party candidates are completely unappealing. Since my vote won't matter anyway, I instead choose to vote my conscience and show that throwing my vote away has more value than picking one of the two major party candidates.

Our voters constantly and consistently reject candidates and policies that only benefit billionaires and their stooges, what could that ever mean to the electability of our candidate who fawns over Reagan staffers?

Harris is more progressive than every single person who voted for Jill Stein. It's an incredibly low bar.

That highly organized distraction in gaza really worked

In a sane world, literally anyone would have beaten trump. A rotten ham sandwich would have won a write in vote over trump.

I do not blame Democrats for running a bad campaign.

I blame the jellyfish stimulus eater organisms that insist they're the same species as me who were "not impressed" by Harris but were dazzled by the funny orange meme man with the dick sucking dance.

At this point I don't hate Trump supporters any more. They're just dogs. I hate the left for allowing us to get to this stage.

I hope the apocalypse is painful for everyone. It would be the first instance of justice our species would experience.

This attitude is generally insane.
“I don’t hate racists, I hate people who hate genocide so much they can’t stomach voting for it.”
Look, I voted for Harris, but it wasn’t easy. Because that blood is on this administrations hands. The party is moving further and further away from my ideals every election. Because they keep moving right. On immigration, tax breaks, health care, foreign policy. She was courting the fuckin neocons!!!
I understand how frustrating it is, because you’re right—not allowing trump to win is better than allowing him. But it’s not so straightforward when your vote is support for something you can’t stomach. Can you understand how that is difficult for people? I sure can. But I also understand how many people stand to get hurt under an authoritarian regime, so i sacrificed my morals again to do what I can to somewhat stem the bleeding.
But that’s not an easy decision to make. Much harder than, say, blaming the racists for racism, and not the people who are anti-racist.
- The dismissal and condescension towards Arab-Americans who were upset over Gaza was fucking insane. That isn't going to be forgotten.
- But it’s not so straightforward when your vote is support for something you can’t stomach. Can you understand how that is difficult for people?
  No, I honestly can't understand that. That whole mindset that doing nothing is somehow more in line with your morals than doing something even though both can have equally bad outcomes is incredibly bizarre to me and reminds me of stupid moral exercises like the trolley problem.
I hate the left for allowing us to get to this stage.
I'm curious what you think the left did.
- Well maybe if you could fucking read...
I do not blame Democrats for running a bad campaign.
I do:
no primary
select the candidate who dropped out early due to terrible polling in 2020
have pretty vague set of campaign policies
go after celebs instead of appealing to people facing actual issues
What they should have done is:
run a primary, with Biden choosing to retire instead of seek reelection
select the candidate voters actually want
have a clear set of campaign policies
appeal to everyday people with even an ounce of charisma
The main issue people seemed to care about was inflation. The Democratic candidate really needed to attack that head on by explaining why inflation got bad, how it's better, and what they'll do to help wages continue to catch up. But instead, Harris made vague promises to "fight price gouging" (that's not what's actually going on) and give handouts to people to buy houses.
That said, there's no way any Democrat would've won my state, so I voted my conscience by picking a third party instead of picking either unqualified candidates. I just wonder how many people felt completely uninspired by Harris like I was, and I can't help but think that cost her the election.
- Once they decided to skip the primary and started getting contributions to a Biden/Harris campaign, it became virtually impossible to select anyone else once Biden dropped out. Only a Harris campaign could take over the money already raised for the campaign. Any other candidate would have to start fundraising a few months before the election starting from nothing, and would have been at a massive disadvantage.
  voted my conscience by picking a third party instead of picking either unqualified candidates
  Are you implying there was a qualified third party candidate? Is this an oxymoron?
- I resent the idea that people need to be dazzled and appealed to in order to not sell the country out. Absolutely no integrity. No intelligence.
  Hence why I called all of you stimulus eater organisms. Paramecium. Fucking amoebas.
I have to say that by all means, Harris' campaign was not a failure by any means. She rocked most of the debates and her speeches were insane. Her only issue was the lack of a proper procedure for being elected at primary candidate, and she focused on ideologies that alienated her from the more centrist and slightly red leaning views.
But despite what has been being spammed in the lemmy communities for months now, her way of being elected was just the old way, that was replaced by the current primaries. I don't agree that they didn't hold another primary but, I also can totally see the argument of "We can't just hold back the election process because someone dropped out"
Harris' main campaign goals alienated a crucial part of the voters though, which was the side that had given up on Trump but had no valid alternative. I had so many friends that if they gave a reason for voting for trump it was "I don't really want to, but I have no other choice, and there is no way I can vote for her because of what her standing is with rights are".
I don't personally agree with the ideology but, sadly she needed those votes the people who didn't vote for trump, ended up doing write in instead of voting blue, because coming out super strong with that as the main argument more or less pushed them back into voting Trump.
- there is no way I can vote for her because of what her standing is with rights are".
  What does this mean? Do your friends actually talk like that?