Jill Stein Is Killing the Green Party
Jill Stein Is Killing the Green Party
“With membership at new lows and no electoral wins to their name, it’s time for the Greens to ditch the malignant narcissist who’s presided over its decline.”
Ive been thinking more and more that the only way forward for the green party may just be to pic a few states and focus on local races. Get control over city councils and some mayoralships. Hell, a green caucus in state houses could actually do some good
Yeah, to be relevant they need to win some elections in large cities and state legislatures. That would be the base necessary to start winning congressional seats and then work up from there. Because the Jill Stein narcissism tour every four years is clearly doing more harm than good.
And it would be the best thing in the world for the Dems. They need cogent and real opposition and right now they’re just running against crazies - which is important, but doesn’t do much for establishing an agenda. A functional Green Party would actually help pull the Dems back more to the left.
The best part of running for a state legislature or congressional position is that they could team with democrats to block the GOP, so unlike the presidential election you aren't voting against your interest for electing a third party.
You can also vote the Democratic primaries, too.
That worked out, suprisingly well, for Sanders. Think about how much change you could affect voting for Sanderses at every level.
I remember in the late 90s the Green Party in my district was on a roll, culminating in the election of a member to the California State Assembly (one of the highest posts ever held by the Greens in the US). Then came Nader’s presidential bid and its perceived role in the election of Bush, which permanently crippled the legitimacy of the local party. They’re still doing great work with voter guides, legislative analysis, etc.; but they’ll never escape the shadow of Nader and Stein.
I think the only viable path for a third party now is to start a new one from scratch, and disavow presidential bids from the outset.
Sam Seder has been saying rhis for a decade at this point.
Its how you build a political movement.
Funny, I just heard him bring it up in a clip. Glad I'm not the oblyone thinking this, means I'm not completely crazy. Could a political party operate a community grocery "store" with campaign funds?
If they were a serious political party. But that would require you to believe that they are wildly incompetent and being supported for that incompetence. Rather than they're doing this intentionally. Not seriously running to win or improve anything. But being a divisive spectacle to destroy solidarity on the left.
This is how the Tea Party and MAGA co-opted the Republicans, and it's the model progressives should use to move the needle in the Democratic party (and they have, with some success).
If progressives want to see change, progressives need to vote. In every election. General or primary.
Who needs party membership when you have unlimited money cheat code from daddy Putin?
What makes you think a politically irrelevant person like Stein would capture the attention of putin?
Oh hey wow who put that picture here.
And the republican billionaires who think you will spoil races.
They never organize, canvass, campaign.. they never put in the work. It's easy to sit on Twitter all day and disparage the Democratic Party (yes they have many flaws as well) and nothing else.
They're lazy grifters.
What exactly did Jill Stein do with that $7 million for the recount? She was interviewed by Mehdi Hassan and he kept asking her why she won't call out Putin when she has no problem calling out Bibi. Yes two things can be true at once. She just couldn't explain why she refused to call Putin out on his war mongering and genocide.
How does the Green Party suddenly get money around election time when they don’t do shit for the previous four years?
People are asking.
How does the Green Party suddenly get money around election time
That's - clearly - when they're doing their best work for their supporter. You thought the 'green' wasn't about greenbacks?
People are asking.
Nyet, no one is asking, don't be silly. 🙃
Maybe has something to do with the dinner she had with him.
No but you see she said he was only there for like 10 minutes and she never talked to him so it's fine.
https://zeteo.com/p/exclusive-mehdi-interviews-jill-stein?utm_campaign=post
For those that don't want to give Elon fucking muskrat a click. Fuck Twitter.
Edit: never mind it's a preview... So fucking important but we need to pay him to see it.
Is there a good article out there with highlights of the interview? I feel like this would merit its own post, it's an amazing watch and very important to see for those still considering Stein a legitimate option.
Jill Stein is both a terrible candidate and possibly a Russian agent. Even if I do align with much of the green parties stances and I live in a solidly blue state, I would never vote for her out of principle
Indeed. I might vote for some Greens down-ballot, but Stein is a stain on the party and its cause
then you are effectively falling right in line with the lies the DNC sold you since the "russian agent" theory is easily debunked after 5 seconds of googling.
I am more concerned with her lack of knowledge on any policy, to be honest with you
I only hear about this candidate a month before the election for the last 50 years, how is this mummy still here?
Because of foreign financing to draw votes away from the Democrats.
Don't forget those shady domestic PACs that drop a dime on her campaign as well. I wonder who those donors could be.... 🤔
And Stein's answer every single time this comes up?
"What about Gaza?"
She is literally an operative for Russia and the Republicans. This isn't even a meme or conspiracy theory, it's simply a plain truth.
I don't understand how a genocide can be taken so lightly. Some people have trouble casting a vote for any political party that sponsors one.
I support the college protestors even when people say they're hurting the cause, but I would say Jill Stein definitely hurts the cause.
I've given more details elsewhere, but the short version:
We can classify US presidential votes into three categories:
The most effective vote to make on an anti-genocide platform is #1.
Voting for a Republican is voting for a party that appears to be profoundly okay with the genocide in Gaza AND wants to start some genocides of their own (e.g. against trans folks, immigrants and racial minorities). This is the most pro-genocide vote.
Voting for a Democrat is voting for a party that has a fairly significant group that opposes the genocide, and which appears to be movable on the topic.
Any other vote is roughly equivalent to not voting. On the presidental front, there is no chance in this election that anyone other than a candidate from one of the main two parties is elected, and that's also true for most senate or house races. (Possibly all, but I don't want to make that strong claim since I haven't actually researched all the races.) Voting for a candidate who you know won't win is explicitly choosing not to have a say between the tho feasible candidates.
I do have one caveat though...
If you live in West Virginia for example, it's a bit more complex. There your choice is essentially "the Republican or not the Republican," so third-party/independent moves into category 1. However, then I'd argue that voting for the Democrat for president may still be the preferable response because if the Republican wins the electoral college but, (as has happened in every presidential election since 1990 except 2004) the Democrat still wins the popular vote, it further delegitimises the Republican's presidency and the electoral college.
Even if you assume she isn't a bad faith actor, she's still objectively failed to pass the one thing the world needs, the Green New Deal, and environmentalism is in the worst shape it's been in decades.
That's not all her fault, but her protest candidacy weirdness put Trump in office the first time instead of spending that time and effort on actual policy so...
Fuck off already?
Haha oh really. It had nothing to do with Hilary being the worst candidate ever? The authoritarian electoral college founded to preserve slavery? The rampant voter suppression by Republicans that Democrats refuse to stop. It was all her fault huh?
Certainly if she has been trying to effect real change in a realistic way, rather than an egocentric impossible run at the presidency.....
Things would have been different. She was one of many straws, which if subtracted, would have prevented trump
So for that and that alone, she and the rest of the greens can fuck right off.
See the No Labels folks for a more common sense way to be activist on national level politics.
Greens would be great if they would focus on good, winnable races from the bottom up....
What that called again?? Uhh 'grass roots'
All her fault, no, but if she was a real progressive she would have learned a lesson and made a play for a lower office. But it's very clear that's not what she's being paid to do.
Is she really responsible for the problems of the US Green party?
As near as I can tell the EU Green parties had a different trajectory. They initially started winning seats in parliaments on purely environmental platforms. Those MPs actually started pushing green agendas in various parliaments. That, in turn led to more people voting for them. Eventually that had to adopt policy positions beyond the environment and they tended to be pretty left.
The US never had Green party members in a position where they could actually do anything useful about the environment. That means they could never fulfill their primary goal in the US. So when they tried to branch out the same way the EU Green parties did, they just turned into a vague hodgepodge of leftists ideas.
Is there any suggestion that Jill Stein's replacement would have any chance of saving the US Green party?
The Green party is doing exactly what it was designed to do. It's siphoning off eco-conscious Democratic voters just significantly enough to affect voting margins but not enough to win. To be clear I'm not saying that Even a significant number of people in the green party have that as a goal, but top down, that's all it's about.
We are a two-party system and they are allowing the green party to exist to use it as a wedge.
Then I guess y'all should starting reworking how your system works, because it doesn't sound like a democracy at all if you can't vote for what you actually believe in.
Someone should inform the Whigs
Every vote for Harris is stealing a vote from third-party candidates who represent real change. By sidelining those voices, you’re indirectly helping Trump win!
The issue is she sucks all the oxygen out of the room with her pointless presidential runs and does nothing for the four years in between. There’s an inconsequential number of Greens who run and win elections in small cities and towns or less consequential elections, and none of them have won any federal elections. A real party leader would recruit and foster candidates in large cities and state legislatures— and then get folks to run for the US House, the Senate, state governorships, and then the presidency.
Stein is less a party leader and more a figurehead who basically seems to be in it for the grift. And so US Greens (especially in comparison to those in the EU) are less a party and more just a convenient label for those of a certain bent that want to run as something other than as a Democrat.
My question was more along the lines of the "(not so) the great (wo)man" hypothesis.
Let's imagine that Jill Stein was permanently abducted by aliens. What do we think would happen?
Would the Green Party just collapse?
Would the former member just join the Democrats?
Would they start a new party?
Or maybe someone new would take over who could do a better job?
I think we'd likely just get someone who's functionally equivalent.
please, she's such a fucking bobble-headed, putin-slopping dork.
Counterpoint: The Green Party hasn't done much to keep people engaged. They killed themselves.
At least the Tea Party had a decent run and engaged with the people who would vote for them. Though, it let MAGA convert or overtake it, but the point still stands. The Tea Party did more in the 10ish years it existed than the Green Party has done in 20 years.
Counter-counterpoint: the Tea Party was an astroturf movement funded by big oil, big tobacco and the Koch brothers. Given massive amounts of support by media companies (lots and lots of oxygen). With the purpose of taking over the GOP and entrenching their toxic industries and power.
With the perspective we have now it is clear that their plan was to push Republican supporters over into fascism (not to say that it wasn't latent within many of them) and reduce the risks of democracy to the oligarchy.
The US green party is essentially an astroturf movement to prevent people from even going as "left" as the Democrats. The Tea Party is there to move Republicans to fascism. The Greens have been co-opted to lubricate that process for them.
Jill Stein doesn’t know how many members of the House there are in Congress. 600?!?!
There is a 100% chance that Trump couldn't name how many members there are in the house. I'd be shocked if he could list the branches of government without help.
note I'm not saying that's acceptable. But if that's your test for "is this a serious candidate" I hate to be the bearer of bad news...
That's interesting.
My brain's first answer was 435, then I took 538 and subtracted the 100 senators and got to 438.
But that's including the 3 from DC I think, so back to 435? Gonna look this up.
Edit: 435, must've been DC.
"given that she herself has received tens of thousands of dollars in campaign contributions from Google, Lockheed Martin, Amazon, Microsoft, Apple, and McKinsey." I don't see this information on the FEC website. Can anybody actually find this information? I sort this page by Amount, and it doesn't list these companies. It lists people:
Pretty sure they’re referring to individual donations where those companies are the employer.
The writer of the article read it on Facebook. Fake news is the new standard.
I am by inclination Green, but I live in Europe where the Greens have been through their scandals and emerged somewhat presentable. I don't believe that is the case in the US, where the Greens and particularly Jill Stein are basically just useful idiots. They disrupt the candidates most aligned to their own cause. And in Stein's case, she's disrupts her own damned country.
And then the Green Party was a zombie.
Just kidding it always was.
The people have killed the green party in the womb.
It's true. Where the hell does the green party matter? I'm not saying this is how it should be, but it's how it is.
Isn't that like accusing the maggots of killing the corpse?
I’m voting for the party for socialism and liberation and you can too.
You don’t need to vote green to cast a third party ballot.
Cool. Not sure I’ve seen anyone arguing against that point.
And of course you’ve been working all the time for the past four years in support of socialism and liberation? Because of course, you wouldn’t be one of the people who only jump in every four years with a third party vote because they think it makes them edgy and cool? That would just be sad.
A lot of the tone of these anti green posts seems pointed at pushing people to vote for the democrats instead. I’m as anti Green Party as they come, but I want to make sure people know there are still good third parties to support.
As a member of the lemmy instance for privacy and open source, I’m not gonna dox myself, but yeah, I’m absolutely politically active in the off years lol.
You wouldn’t happen to be trying to badjacket people or gatekeep support for PSL, would you? Because first timers and those newly disillusioned with the democrats are welcome to vote for PSL. No experience required.
will be voting for the PSL if they're on the ballot in my state, Claudia De la Cruz is great. if they don't make it on the ballot then it'll probably go to Stein as I believe she's confirmed on the ballot in my state, but the PSL is my first choice!
edit: just checked, the PSL is indeed on the ballot in my state, so they've got my vote :3
Trump is gunna win and it will be your fault libs. Just like the first time. You ain't going to be able to spin your way out of this.
Shitlibs love to be parrots for the DNC, eating up whatever shit they spew out their asses to stay in power. Yeah, the green party and Stein are the baddies, not the genocidal, warmongering democrats who don't give a shit about Americans 🙄
Tell me a flagship green policy of hers, if you can find it.
I'd love for this person to highlight even one thing outside of running for president every few years, that Jill Stein has done to forward climate activism or help stop the endless wars.
There’s a reason it’s called the Green New Deal:
The first U.S. politician to run on a Green New Deal platform was Howie Hawkins of the Green Partywhen he ran for governor of New York in 2010. Green Party presidential candidate Jill Steinran on a Green New Deal platform in 2012 and 2016.
The opposition research from the Democratic Party says otherwise
Genocidal Democrats are crashing out this election.
If Harris wants to win over Stein voters, this is definitely not the way to do it.
So no thoughts on perennial sorta kinda candidate Stein making the Green Party a laughingstock then? Or the fact that with her campaign only surviving with the help of GOP operatives and Russian propaganda campaigns, she’s actually making it harder to take third party candidates seriously at any level of government?
No thoughts on the democratic party completely capitulating to a reactionary right wing framework on Israel, immigration, and foreign policy? No thoughts on the Biden/Harris administration actively funding a genocide for the past year? No thoughts on Kamala promising to continue allowing Israel to "defend itself"? Blue maga is literally celebrating the endorsement of the architect of the invasion of Iraq. Did the Democratic establishment forget to at least pretend to be an opposition party?
What convinced you that the Green Party is a laughingstock and that Stein is responsible?
Or the fact that with her campaign only surviving with the help of GOP operatives and Russian propaganda campaigns, she’s actually making it harder to take third party candidates seriously at any level of government?
Which GOP donors and Russian operatives are you referring to? Donations are a matter of public record. Which ones are from the GOP and Russia?
Harris wants to win over Stein voters, this is definitely not the way to do it.
This is true, I've already spoken to all 7 of them, they're mad.
However it's all their fault if Harris loses.
Good thing then this is an opinion piece from a publication, and not something from Harris?
If Stein voters are offended by an article that a journalist writes about how ineffectual the Green Party is, and they blame Harris for that, that says more about the voters than it does anything else.
Namely that Greens will blame everyone except themselves for election losses.
They're quoting people from the DNC in the article. Did you even read it?
I see a lot of anti Stein rhetoric lately I understand the push to not let her drag the ticket from Kamala but I wonder how much is true and how much is news trying to sway my opinion
edit; Imagine asking a reasonable question in 2024 lol
Stein has been a known Russian asset and Democratic spoiler candidate for about a decade now, being "Green" has never actually had anything to do with her political goals.
You're seeing anti-Stein rhetoric lately because it's a Presidential election year and that's the only time the Green party tries to be visible.
I'm sure the two or three Green people at the local level believe in the party's stated platform, but at the higher level it absolutely looks like the party exists only to siphon votes away from the Democratic party.
I would suggest you do your own research, but she’s run several times, has no real experience or qualifications, and has been shown multiple times to be benefiting (either knowingly or unknowingly) from both GOP operatives and Russian interference.
Personally I fully support third parties - if they do more than just show up as spoilers every four years. Jill Stein has been doing zilch to push the Green Party forward except in presidential election years. And as a result she’s doing more harm to folks who want more options than not.
How much do you hear about the Green Party OTHER than the presidential election? That should tell you quite a bit.
That’s because corporate media has a vested interest in not covering them. Their membership has stayed the same since about 2011
Note that I went to her own platform page and that was enough for me to be a hard pass even if I went worried about Trump and even I never heard anything from anyone about her.
The deal breakers for me were:
There's a bit more I find to be problematic, but those are sufficient.
It's because she's strong on issues that Harris is weak on...especially the ongoing genocide in Gaza. Stein agrees with the majority of the Democrats: we should quit funding the genocide. Harris wants to continue funding it.
Green party has been dead since Nader.
Pretending they had a chance in a voting system that can barely support two parties was kinda pitiable. Until we have RCV for federal elections at a minimum, they will never have a shot.
A-fucking-men.
The Green Party should be the RCV party and that should be their main focus. After that then they and any other party would actually stand a chance. Republicans are actively banning RCV from being implemented and Democrats are slow walking it, but we need to keep pushing.
This is a little discussed problem with fptp (along with many others) it gives minor parties perverse incentive to play spoiler, which gives foreign actors an opportunity to find spoilers.
They have a shot, by joining the Democratic Party. The same way that progressives join liberals, make their voice heard, and let the voters decide.
Whens that?