11mo ago

Telegram CEO charged in France for ‘allowing criminal activity’ on messaging app

www.theguardian.com

The head of Telegram, Pavel Durov, has been charged by the French judiciary for allegedly allowing criminal activity on the messaging app but avoided jail with a €5m bail.

The Russian-born multi-billionaire, who has French citizenship, was granted release on condition that he report to a police station twice a week and remain in France, Paris prosecutor Laure Beccuau said in a statement.

The charges against Durov include complicity in the spread of sexual images of children and a litany of other alleged violations on the messaging app.

His surprise arrest has put a spotlight on the criminal liability of Telegram, the popular app with around 1 billion users, and has sparked debate over free speech and government censorship.

72 comments

Now do Zuckerberg and Musk
- Don't leave out Spez.
- Meta is literally ad platform for scam. But it’s american, so it’s ok.
  
  It's the same shit. I was advertised psylocibin shit on facebook before.
- The problem is that those guys comply with the requests from governments.
- do you agree with this arrest or are you pointing out the double standards ?
  
  I don't really understand how he allowed crime. I can commit crime via sms, whatsapp, signal or mail. Does that mean they allow it?
- Presumably Moxie as well since I'm constantly being told that Signal is the most secure e2ee platform.
  
  Telegram holds the keys, Signal doesn't
  
  Not the place
Telegram has no end to end encryption by default.
- Wording is confusing. Here are some better takes that sound valid and are true:
  Telegram's e2ee is only available for chats of 2 people, and only on official mobile client.
  Telegram's e2ee is a feature you have to enable whenever you need it (called secret chats).
  
  and only on official mobile client.
  This is incorrect, it is also available in other mobile clients (at least those which are forks of the official one).
  
  And telegrams e2ee destroys all cool features it originally had
- Yeah, I'm siding with the French government on this one at first blush. E2EE platforms are a necessary tool for combating government overreach and corporate surveillance. But if you willingly make a platform that's not E2EE, the idea of users being able to share this vile shit being a "necessary evil" toward the greater societal good completely falls apart. If you 1) have this vile content on your platform, 2) know it exists, 3) can trivially combat it in a targeted manner, and 4) choose not to, then you're complicit in its distribution.
  I have no sympathy for a CEO who tries to dupe their userbase into believing their app is private and then not even take advantage of the one single ethical benefit to the platform not being E2EE.
  
  That's a wild way of twisting the logic. Just because the platform doesn't fall under your e2ee definition doesn't mean they had to do something that is only possible on purely cloud services.
  The reason for arrest doesn't even have anything to do with encryption. All content that facilitates mentioned crimes is public. Handling it shouldn't involve any backdoors or otherwise service-side decryption.
  
  Not to whatabout it but under this logic we got other "CEO"s who should see a similar treatment.
  Will they?
- And none for group chats.
- Is that the point here? Telegram is not a messaging app, it have that functionality but it does not revolve around that. And there is e2ee if you enable it. Thanks
  
  But Telegram IS a messaging app? Their motto is literally "a new era of messaging".
So to make it clear, it's because their company actually holds some data for clients that these governments want access to - because telegram is not peer-to-peer, unless you set a chat to private.
In essence Telegram as a company holds a lot of data that the French authorities want access to...
This comment brought to you by the Signal gang.
- If you want to continue using Signal, you should fight for the right of others to use Telegram. "First they came for them and I said nothing". The EU and others are trying hard to control people's private messaging.
  
  It's not a fight, it's logic. The world governments can do nothing to OpenWhisperSystems (the makers of Signal), because they don't store any communication.
  Telegram however thought they were smart, by storing data and splitting that data up in to several different pieces around the world, assuming governments wouldn't collude together to get it.
  But they didn't foresee the litigious nature of nation states, and that's what we're seeing now. If these nation states also start to collude with one another, everyone who thought they were safe are gonna get fucked.
  Signal does not store any communication data. They only facilitate handshake between clients and the clients manage the data between themselves.
  This is why Telegram isn't safe, but Signal is.
  
  Even better: tell people about Briar. It isn't for everyone but if people are really concerned it is the right answer. Briar has issues with convenience but that can be mitigated somewhat.
- Nobody is coming after Signal because nobody uses Signal. Telegram has a user base of almost 1 billion.
  
  I think Signal is liked by the US government. I doubt it would be targeted. Also the US has laws protecting platforms.
  
  Yeah. A lot of people use Facebook and TikTok too, yet here we are on Lemmy. How many users are there here?
Telegrams moderation leaves a lot to be desired. I'm not saying they should look into or give governments people's private conversations but I am saying that certain public features of telegram that do allow you to report illegal materials have been used to spread them.
- certain public features of telegram that do allow you to report illegal materials have been used to spread them.
  I don't understand, what do you mean? Does clicking "report" on a message not simply send a report to moderators only?
  
  I'm saying that Telegram's moderators are not moderating stuff they should be moderating and that they have admitted they should be moderating. I know that it's not their fault, it's the small size of the team compared to almost a billion monthly active users, but still.
  
  I do wonder how much "report" does.
Next up: Discord!
- Pretty sure Discord keeps tons of data on their users and readily complies with warrants.
  I mean, they shut down tons of Yuzu and Yuzu clone discord servers for Nintendo.
  I think they're already in the good graces of those kind of folks.
- Discord does not have this problem. Source: the US government and the issue of massive security breaches by people arguing in some discord chat
It is funny that his bail was a small fraction of his wealth. This situation is tense and uncertain but at least there is something funny about it.
Elder millennial, you little brat.
You're irrelevant IN the big picture, at least with that attitude. Defeatism is everywhere and prevents grassroots movements and is the sign of a weak spirit. I refuse that attitude and stick to the merits of a concept, rather than falling back on a logical fallacy like appeal to majority. Stop doing that, because that's how you get subjugated, that's how change is prevented, that is how those in power and influence remain in power and influence. Be the change you want to see.
EDIT: but yes, i was lost, as i thought i was answering to a comment in my inbox, but I did also find @MeetInPotatoes@lemmy.ml mom - and boy did I meet those potatoes, lemme tell ya.
- Are you lost?
  
  Naw, I found your mom's room just fine.

72 comments