‘Hitting kids should never be allowed’: Illinois bans corporal punishment in all schools
‘Hitting kids should never be allowed’: Illinois bans corporal punishment in all schools
Legislation that Gov. JB Pritzker signed into law this month bans physical punishment in private schools while reiterating a prohibition on the practice in public schools implemented 30 years ago.
The data available shows hitting kids does absolutely nothing to increase desired behaviors and in many cases is linked to increase in unwanted behaviors.
What do you mean hitting children teaches them that hitting is acceptable?
Next they will tell us that beating our wives for dinner being late is unacceptable!
Yeah I can 100% confirm this. My parents beat me when I was a kid.
I've learned to lie better. It's not something I'm proud of.
Also explains a lot about American culture being what it is.
We all learned to convincingly lie our way out of “the wooden spoon”
My mom wasn't strong enough to beat me and I quickly got bigger than my step-dad, but the psychological and mental abuse was there. And now she questions why it don't let her hang out with my son alone and will abruptly leave with him when I get even a whiff of it.
Edit: forgot my point, but yes, I too became a master liar.
To be fair, your case applies to any sort of punishment.
- I'm punished if I do something wrong.
- If they don't find out, I don't get punished.
Conclusion: need to hide doing something wrong better.
Hitting your kids just teaches them to self harm before problem solving
In schools? How is this even still an open question? I thought the debate had at least moved on to whether parents should be allowed to hurt their children, even in the US.
It was banned in public schools 30 years ago, this extends the ban to private schools
Not in every state.
Wait, it was allowed up until now?
Laws for physically harming children are super messed up. Children are legally nearly a slave class in this country. Their parents can 100% hit them ("within reason") and it's not child abuse. If a child retaliates at all, the child can actually have charges pressed against them by the parent.
I have heard numerous numerous stories of this exact situation: parent starts beating kid to discipline. it gets out of hand/kid won't tolerate any more, so they call 911. Police show up, tell kid not only are they not arresting parent, but it is parent's right to hit kid and discipline as they see fit (within the law). But if parent wants they can see about charges to kid if kid hit them or destroyed property.
This is also very similar as to what happens when women call for domestic violence - the police threaten to arrest the victim. Really really often. It's almost like police are domestic abusers themselves.
Patriarchal violence...
But true, the US is one of the few countries that didn't sign the children's rights convention
Sources please. Never heard this. Always heard the cops do little, sometimes heard the system works. Have not heard cops tell kids they can be hit. (Edit: not doubting, just more in a wtf state.)
There's still a handful of red states with it on the books as well. Yes, it's everyone you think it is.
Technically in AZ you can rap the knuckles of a student with a ruler. You'll still get fired for hitting a kid but I am pretty sure you are safe from a lawsuit.
Catholic schools still hit kids, iirc. Fairly certain it's legal in private schools. (In AZ)
Heres my argument against hitting kids. Mississippi loves it, cant get enough of it. Every ailment of society is caused by kids not getting hit enough, and they wear their past of childhood violence as their biggest badge of honor. Hitting kids is how you get Mississippians.
"Mississippi ranks 39th in violent crime among all states and has the third-lowest violent crime rate in the South. "
Is it ... working?
Violent crime in rural areas is dramatically underreported because cops don't even take reports for domestic violence unless it requires an ambulance ride.
Or they ain't so gud at countin'.
Is the point of hitting children to reduce violent crime? I have a feeling there are better ways. Maybe we should work on getting rid of microplastics.
The thumbnail made me think this was about hitting children with busses, glad to see that's already illegal
hitting children with busses, glad to see that's already illegal
...for now.
I thought it was going to be a !fuck_cars@lemmy.ml post, until I reached the corporeal punishment part.
This is overreacting. I was beat as a child and I only need minimal therapy now.
Good job. Keep making conservatives actively confront their weird, inhumane, hateful bullshit on its face.
The gop is the party of hungry, beaten kids, sitting in understaffed schools, without schoolbooks, and distracted by construction noise from the publicly funded ten commandments statue going up near the school entrance between the active shooter drills. They sit there, nodding off and tired from working a double at the Tyson chichen slaughterhouse the night before.
And never forget, matt gaetz is sitting in the parking lot waiting to offer your kids a ride after school...
"would you like a ride to another state where it's legal for me to do you?"
I was threatened with spanking once in the 9th grade.
I told the principal that it would take more than him to do it. He called my dad. Dad laughed in his face and told him to try me on. Then hung up.
I ended up with a week of ISS.
INB4: I know this sounds like a greentext. I've been telling this story for 20 fkin years.
We had "optional" corporal punishment.
You could choose swats with a paddle, or writing sentences over and over.
Most people took swats, but I just picked sentences and never did them. They'd double the amount a couple times and eventually stop asking for them.
But absolutely zero boys gave a shit about taking swats, it was no deterrent what so ever. Even knowing that there was an easy way out of the alternative, they'd just take swats and immediately forget it happened.
If anything it made behavior worse, because they could do whatever and then have a few seconds of discomfort later if and only if they were caught doing the bad thing.
Oh yeah, I think girls didn't even have the option.
I dont know if the girls gym teacher just wouldn't do it, or if none of them picked it, but none of them got swats.
But almost every gym class there was a line of boys waiting.
spanking teenage girls
This is a thing that happens?
At my school, the principal wasn’t allowed to paddle girls. Only boys.
I don’t know who made that rule but I can imagine why.
Im sure you have sources right? Would you share them so we can all spread the word?
Girls have a higher pain tolerance than boys.
Sounds like the sort of thing a doctor says while explaining himself at an inquisition.
I'm seeing conflicting research on a cursory look.
Im sure you have sources right? Would you share them so we can all spread the word?
We'll. Unless you want me to call up my middle school gym teacher I dont really know what you want me to do here champ...
But part of that is because you replied to a long comment asking for a source without mentioning what you were talking about.
Even then, looking at my entire comment I have absolutely zero idea what the fuck you're asking for here.
Showing a picture of buses made me think they meant hitting them with vehicles lmao
same lol
Otto is way too stoned to get road rage
Here's a crazy idea. Every time you wanna spank a kid, don't. Spank that kid's parents instead.
But but but . . . hitting solves problems!
Just ask the guy who invented it . . . Hitler.
(I'll show myself out)
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/hundreds-of-elementary-students-arrested-at-us-schools/
Go home, America. You're drunk.
Earlier that day, the child allegedly spit at a teacher. Now, he was in handcuffs and a police officer was saying he could end up in jail.
Well...that's assault...what would you like the teacher to do in that situation?
Once upon a time, back in the dark ages when I was in school, kids like that were sent to the principal's office, at which point they might be given detention, suspension, or even expulsion.
Wipe it off, tell the child in no uncertain terms that this is never acceptable, and if it continues being confrontational to that degree, send it to the principal's office to get detention.
Not to arrest children.
It's CHILD ABUSE!
To not allow TEACHERS to SPANK KIDS! I'm a Republican trying to Protect The Children!
So we're getting a throwback to 1973 news articles... Wait there were still places outside of backwards ass Pender County, NC that did this shit?
The nuns. That's what the article is saying.
Wow, I thought that was just a thing in cartoons. Huh, weird.
When is someone going to spank me for once?
Bonk!
I went to a small rural school for a year when I was in elementary. The music teacher head paddle he'd use when it was your birthday. Wanna know the really fucked up part about it all? His paddle has holes drilled into it.
That's a slapstick
I like how america is slowly making it into the XIX c. Well done america!
I'm sure whatever country you're from has fully rejected out-of-date ideas.
I think I saw a list of states that still allow this just today.
Why is the fleet assembled then? Looks like they’re going on a schoolbus spree
There was a time when corporal punishment was actively encouraged - Spare the rod and spoil the child.
Yes, in the iron age when that book you're quoting from was written. They also believed in reading bird entrails to tell the future and bleeding people in order to cure their illnesses.
This issue is one of the only debates in the world that I don’t have a strong stance about. How the hell do you balance the fact that the kids are evil little (or large) monsters in desperate need of discipline with the fact that the ones passing judgement on them are no better?
Teaching a child "I will hurt you if you don't do what I want" is called bullying. That's why we stop children doing it to other children.
It teaches them nothing but to fear you and possibly to pass that idea that children should fear their parents on to their own children.
I'm of the position that violence (broadly speaking, including the smallest offences) is never the best answer to a misbehaving child (or adult for that matter), but there are times when it's not the worst answer either. When parents don't have the skills to raise children with other methods, the net result just becomes that the children aren't raised at all.
Somehow I seem to have gotten through 14 years of parenting a good kid without once hitting her for any reason.
The most violent thing I've ever done is grab her wrist and pull her quickly when she was a toddler and on the sidewalk and suddenly decided to try to run off the curb and into traffic. And that wasn't punishment, that was a last resort to stop her from accidentally killing herself.
In school and 99% of scenarios, physicality doesn't do any good. But if you have a really young child, like 3-5, and they hurt another child or an animal and show no remorse, I think spanking is acceptable as a punishment immediately after the incident. They might have trouble with developing empathy and need to understand they hurt another being.
How does their adult role model hitting them not just teach them that hitting is socially acceptable?
Teaching this to a kid without empathy seems like the worst imaginable circumstance lol.
And I sure as hell don't want someone other than the parents ever making that decision.
This is the same logic given for school aged children to not fight back against bullies for decades, and bullying is now a huge problem.
I'm talking about a situation where your own child is exhibiting bullying characteristics at a very young age. You can't sit them down and explain why pulling their sibling's hair shouldn't give them gratification...they still want to do it. Just when you're not around. The consequences have to be emotionally driven, and something they can understand and feel even when an adult is not present. What's your alternative? Timeout? Take a toy away?
I had a brother who tormented me for many years. My parents tried various things, and nothing worked. The thing that did work was me hitting him in the face with a metal belt when I was like ten when he physically attacked me for the millionth time. He just name-called after that, never touched me.
Obviously an adult is not going to do something like that. But how do you correct a very young child who is exhibiting signs that they are growing into a bully?
The answer to a child showing such violent tendencies is therapy, not causing them pain.
Fucking hell, how is this still legal in 45 other states???
We have a long way to go
Right? I’m often shocked by what is still legal, like the number of states that allow an adult to marry a child.
It's frustrating how long it takes the legal system to catch up. I experienced corporal punishment in public school. It's a barbaric and weird practice.
Gotta make sure the kids stay in line so you can get them to work. Don't forget how many child labor laws have been loosened or removed by conservative states
TIL.. what the fuck. This shit has been illegal Canada wide for generations now, I honestly thought this article was from the past..
Wait...is the modern day US from the past? Was there some sort of time loop?
Wait till you find out how often the state executes harmless restrained prisoners in modern day US.
Nope, it’s still legal to spank children in Canada. As long as the force used does not exceed what is considered reasonable under the circumstances. Linked article
Personal anecdote: when I was in 3rd grade in the early 2000s, there was a student in class that had major behavioural issues and would act out all the time. I had witnessed an incident in class which the student was acting out in front of the teacher, which eventually escalated to the point where he started throwing his desk around and threw his chair at her. After the teacher returned to class a few days later, she had disclosed to the whole class that she had a signed permission form by the student’s parents authorizing her to use force on the student.
It would explain alot
I was unaware it was still legal until this.
I’m not a violent person. I’ve never been in a fight, let alone in jail for assault. If some school official did that shit to my daughter, it would be my first time for both.
Like everything else in this country.
The Cruelty is the Point
Cuz of little shits? You know how they say Karens are Karens cuz they never had consequences?
It is entirely possible to give children consequences without hitting them, you lack imagination if the only way you can envision giving a child consequences is to hit them.
There's a difference between fear and respect. A child should NEVER fear the adult providing their care.
I would actually wager decent money that many of those little shits have been smacked around quite a lot. They learn to react how they were taught by demonstration. If mistakes are met with violence and aggression, then they learn to do the same to others.
I know a teacher who (unofficially) specialises in kids like those. They are hell on a new teacher. However, once they realise that they are not met with aggression, the veneer cracks. The young scared child realises that there is an adult they both cares and shouldn't be feared. Very soon, just the idea that they might disappoint her is a far better motivator than any punishment could be.
Why do you think, “if you do something I disapprove of, I will cause you pain,” is a good lesson to teach a child? When a child does that to another child, it’s called bullying.
Can you imagine being unable to communicate with a child without having the option of hitting them?