Hamas launches rocket attack towards Tel Aviv area
Hamas says it has launched a rocket attack towards the Tel Aviv area in central Israel for the first time in nearly four months. At least eight rockets were launched from the Rafah area in southern Gaza and several were intercepted, the Israeli military says. No injuries have been reported.
... not helping.
"Hey! Stop that! Be genocided in peace! How dare you fight back!"
Look, if we're gonna agree that Israel has been occupying Palestine for decades and abusing them for decades, at a certain point you need to admit that Hamas isn't 100% at fault. Just like how the USs actions in the Middle East increased extremism and terrorism, so has Israel's. You can't keep murdering mothers and fathers and expect the children to grow up thinking that "peace as dictated by your oppressors" is the solution.
Nobody is ever 100% at fault, life doesn't work that way. People are interconnected with each other in ways we can never fully disentangle.
The question is how best to move forwards towards peace. And that, is not helped by continuation of violent conflict. 8 rockets towards the Israeli seat of govt isn't "fighting back", not vs their air defence. It's "not enough people have died yet".
I don't think either of you are wrong. What you are both seeing is a feedback loop. You decide which you want to put first here, but for simplicity's sake, Israel attacks a threat, which kills people's innocent loved ones. This creates more people who become a threat by attacking Israel, which results in Israel attacking that threat, and the cycle continues indefinitely.
Yes, the oppressed are eager to hurt people any way they can, and nobody can expect it to be any other way.
But still, launching long range missiles isn't an impulse action. There are so many actors domestic and internationally to do production, procurement, installation, logistics, assembly, that we can assume someone high up has made a strategic decision based on expected outcome.
And the expected outcome is extremely obvious: a) zero tactical gains, and b) more excuses to ignore international pressure and hit Rafah even more brutally.
That'll help.
In its bare reality, decolonization reeks of red-hot cannonballs and bloody knives. For the last can be the first only after a murderous and decisive confrontation between the two protagonists. This determination to have the last move up to the front, to have them clamber up (too quickly, say some) the famous echelons of an organized society, can only succeed by resorting to every means, including, of course, violence.
Frantz Fanon, The Wretched of the Earth
I really need to read that book 📕
People without a state fighting for their right to be a state shoots rockets at country that they are at war with.
Kiev shoots rockets into Russia and everyone gets it.
I'm anti-war as much as the next person but I can understand that a besieged people will act like they are under seige.
Kiev shoots rockets into Russia and everyone gets it.
"Kiev" eh, tovarisch? Ukraine doesn't bomb residential targets. Palestinians should have their own country but don't defend what Hamas are doing here.
It's been almost a decade of civilian targets in Donetsk Oblast getting struck. Sure, blame it on civil war, but point still holds.
In Ukraine's case russia is guilty of both the crimes of hamas and Israel:
russia invaded with the intent to wipe out their neighbour and wiping out Ukrainian identity from the region (like hamas wants to wipe out Israel and would if they had the means). They resort to unethical asymmetric tactics and torture innocents in the name of national liberation like hamas.
as well as
levelling whole cities with massive civilian casualties without regard for human life (like Israel is doing).
There is no equivalence.
You're living in fantasy land. Israel is wiping Palestinians off the planet, actions > words. Israel is guilty of Hamas and Israels actions according to your own logic.
There is absolutely equivalence, both are besieged and their actions are understandable at the state level. Fight back to your oppressors.
Can't believe you're being downvoted. Palestinians have ever right to defend themselves against Zionist colonists who have stolen their country.
Israel is built on stolen land and mass graves.
Eh, internet points are not real. Much of the conversation devolves into purity of tactics for a people who attack their subjugators. Decades of subjugation and genocide are irrelevant but we will overanalyze the actions of the oppressed as society always does.
Show me any nation state that isn't. I'd be really interested if there are actually any.
Ukraine fires rockets at military targets. Hamas fires rockets at civilian population centers. Most people get the distinction.
Maybe more genocide will make Israel safe. Genocide is the best path to peace and security, right? 🤪
Not the best path, but ... eventually.
Soo... the battle of Berlin was a genocide against the German people, because the Soviets killed 125000 German civilians besides the enemy combatants.
Call it what it is: a war. There are blockades, starvation, massacres in war, especially in urban combat. That is why you avoid declaring war or invading your neighbours, like hamas did on Oct 7th, but hamas doesn't give a shit about Palestinians, so long as they manage to wipe out Israel.
Is it war when one group is wholly reliant on another for access to food, water, communication, electricity and other forms of aid?
It's ridiculous to call this a war when there's such a dependency. Israel wants Palestinians in gaza over the southern border or dead, an ethnic cleansing and genocide.
Not to mention the West Bank, which is not controlled by Hamas, being a center of settler violence and concentration camps for Palestinians.
Some war.
The Soviets in WWII are not really an image you want to be compared to. They actually did commit multiple genocides in that era. Not against the Germans, I mean they did murder and rape a lot of people, but they were not motivated by the eradication of the German population. Those murders and rapes were "simply" war crimes.
So the battle of Berlin was not a genocide. Katyn and the Holodomor arguably were. Killing innocent civilians is "just" murder, a war crime. When Ben-Gvir speaks of fighting “human animals”, making Gaza a “slaughterhouse” and “erasing the Gaza Strip from the face of the earth”, that makes it into a genocide.
It's the motivation, especially the explicit, professed motivation of the leadership that makes what Israel - and by the way, also Hamas, though less successfully - is doing genocide, not just "normal" war crimes.
The only invaders are the Zionists who were invited into Palestine and then repaid the favour by ethnically cleansing 750000 Palestinians and committing genocide.
7 months and you’re still getting this wrong.
Genocide does not have to exterminate everyone to be considered genocide. Erasing the nation is also a definition of genocide; and Netanyahu has publicly admitted to this. His party charter says to eliminate Palestine. He said he will never allow a Palestinian state, and that Palestinians don’t exist and are just Jordanians. His cabinet has toyed with the idea of forcibly deporting all Palestinians. The ICC and ICJ have spelled out how Netanyahu’s policies meet the definition of genocide.
Can we let this falsehood die already?
Hamas is just fighting back. Chill bros, it's just a defensive action.
There's IDF all around them, but instead they fire the few rockets they have left at a civilian population center.
Terrorists to the bitter end.
Fuck bibi and gvir, the far right is a cancer in any country.
Where’d Hamas launch from?
It's almost like Hamas is a puppet for Israel, designed to keep giving Israel an excuse to continue their genocide.
Western imperialism and having insurgency groups used for divide and conquer tactics grow out of control and backfire. Name a better combo