1y ago

Missouri man fatally shoots his mother at home after mistaking her for intruder

www.theguardian.com

A 25-year-old Missouri man says he mistook his mother for an intruder before shooting her to death at their home’s back door.
Prosecutors have charged Jaylen Johnson with manslaughter and armed criminal action in connection with the shooting death on Thursday of his mother, Monica McNichols-Johnson.
McNichols-Johnson’s shooting death came less than a year after another shooting in Missouri saw Ralph Yarl, then 16, get shot on 13 April by 84-year-old Andrew Lester after ringing the wrong doorbell while picking up his siblings.

155 comments

Living with a handgun owner particularly increased the risk of being shot to death in a domestic violence incident, and it did not provide any protection against being killed at home by a stranger, the researchers found. - Guardian Article April 7, '22
The relationship of Americans and our guns is such a weird, religious-level issue. Just bizarre people. And some of them are friends of mine. The people, not the guns.
- The relationship of Americans and our guns is such a weird, religious-level issue
  
  Well can he stop?
  
  What assault rifle would Baby Jeebus use?
  
  The more you try to ban guns, the harder they fight back.
  How are people living on farms supposed to defend themselves against robbers if they don't own guns?
  This is what you city people don't understand because you think city life is the only life that matters.
- I've heard this claim before and haven't really been able to dig into it. One question that came up through that article related to this paragraph:
  The study focused only on homicide risk and did not examine how living with a handgun owner might increase or decrease the risk of being victimized in other ways, including by nonfatal assault, home invasion, or property theft.
  This sounds like something like a home invasion that would have ended in a homicide but didn't (due to a gun or other reasons) wouldn't be counted. The cases that are due to a gun would seem especially important.
  
  My friends around the world who aren't Americans,
  The above is what it's like trying to talk about gun control with people here. Most of my experience isn't crazy gun nuts strutting around strapped because of some fucked up interpretation of the thought behind the 2A. It's people giving reasonable, at least superficially, arguments about why their guns aren't part of the problem. I say it's religious because it's all faith in the face of facts. Or fear in front of facts really.
  
  Sounds like the issue could use more research. It's too bad there's a law prohibiting federal funds being used to study gun violence
  
  I dont understand what you are questioning, the stat is about invaders with weapons. Having a weapon does not decrease risk in those instances.
  The part you quoted is talking about how handguns may decrease risk in other non fatal home invasions. Maybe I'm reading what you're saying wrong, but the gun encounters are the ones being counted for comparison between those with or without handguns.
- That was about an unlinked study of exclusively Californians, which skews things sufficiently so as to be almost wholly unapplicable to the rest of the country.
  
  Ah, yeah. You got me. Gun violence is not a problem at all in the rest of the country. Typical elite coastal thinking, amiright?
  
  The biggest state, bigger than many countries. How different can it be from other parts of the same country?
  
  I'd love to hear your explanation for how it skews things sufficiently. I'm going to take a stab in the dark and guess you've never been to California or if you have never outside of LA/SF/SD
  
  Haha, yeah man, some times I use big words to give myself more credibility too.
  
  The article pointed out shortcomings in the data, but did not consider the state to be one of them
If only his Mother had a Gun she could have Protected herself from her Son who had a gun and accidentally Shot her! That's literally the ONLY way she could have saved herself!
- With two guns, she would have been twice as safe!
An armed society is a society where people are looking for someone to shoot.
- From across the pond, it seems wild how bad it spiralled out due to capitalism. You guys got sold on the idea of having to defend your own house at any point of time... Leads people to have fantasies of being in such a scenario to use their custom piece to end a fool!
  Are we really surprised it ended this way?
  
  "You guys"
- I'm armed. Not seeking any victims. Have a nice day.
  
  If you really weren't seeking any victims, you wouldn't be armed.
  
  Be honest. You've had dreams/thoughts of killing someone in self defence.
Is Missouri the new Florida?
This is a sad story, but as a former Missourian it's not super surprising.
There's anger and distrust that's festering there. A societal anger, not a personal one. It's a personification and personalization of national politics.
I can't describe the relief it is to not live in that environment anymore.
I am incredibly lucky.
Missouri really is a bunch of armed morons, you need to watch your ass in that state for real.. armed and looking to shoot somebody, the whole ignorant state..
- We don't call it Misery for nothing. Though sadly there's a sizable chunk of this country I'd rather not set foot in; others you couldn't pay me enough to live there. Even PA from where I grew up has gone to shit. Still, compared to Mississippi or Alabama, Missouri is living in the future.
  Just feels like people are zombies in these areas. Right-wing media, corporations, low education, alcohol/drugs, lead exposure, TBIs really did a number on these areas...
Yet another reason to ask questions first.
- Knowing your target (and what is beyond it) is one of the core rules of gun safety.
  
  Positive identification. Always.
  
  Not owning a gun is my favourite gun safety rule.
- To be fair it could have been a cop and they don't ask questions first either before unloading multiple magazines worth of ammo so 🤷
My aunt killed her husband with a gun when he came home early from his business trip to surprise her.
What is wrong with some people? The chance of someone with intent to cause bodily harm trying to break into a residence when someone is home is essentially zero.
- That's why you've got to grab your cool guns and start blasting immediately -- you might never get another chance.
- It's low but nonzero, and depends on your exact location.
  But what's wrong with them is the constant stoking of their fear by Fox News and similar media, that tells them that the illegals are breaking into their houses to steal their wives and rape their jobs, or something.
- Nearly ~~600,000~~ 900,000 burglaries occur yearly in the US, with 27.6% occurring while occupants were present and 25% of those incidents involving ~~an assault~~ violent crime on the occupants. (https://insurify.com/homeowners-insurance/insights/burglary-statistics/) That comes to ~~37,500~~ 62,100 ~~break-in assaults~~ victims of violent crimes from break-ins in the US per year, divided by 123.6 million households in the US comes to a 1 in ~~3,296~~ 1,990 chance of a household's occupants being assaulted in a break-in each year. That's ~~68%~~ roughly as many incidents as being injured or killed by a firearm anywhere in the country each year as tallied by the GVA. Hardly zero, unless you also mean to minimize US gun violence.
  Though either of these stats are hardly able to be applied broadly across the entire country given their driving force of poverty and its extreme regional & local disparities.
  Edit: Actually those 600,000 burglaries only account for 69% of the US population. The actual number is 900,000 nationally, bumping the math's number of violent crimes including assault, robbery, and rape experienced in homes up to 62,100 or 1 in 1,990, surpassing being a victim of broad gun violence as tallied by the GVA when removing instances of justified self-defense.
  
  I feel like you're minimizing the part where it's 0.03% by contrasting it with what you take as the given that individual gun violence is a likely threat in most of the country.
  Gun violence can be a problem without it being a specific actionable concern for the majority of people.
  It's why it's not contradictory to think we should work to reduce gun violence, and also not find it necessary to be armed in anticipation of imminent violence.
  
  More than 11,000 burglaries in 2021 involved assault
  That's a direct quote from your article so where does the "37,500 break-in assaults" number come from when it's 3x higher than what your source lists?
  Furthermore,
  In 2021, the most recent year for which complete data is available, 48,830 people died from gun-related injuries in the U.S.,
  Meaning you're 4x more likely to be shot by someone than assaulted during a burglary
  https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2023/04/26/what-the-data-says-about-gun-deaths-in-the-u-s/
  
  Your first link is some insurance company corporate website that has no reason to be truthful. The second link won't reveal its sources unless you pay, but also shows that violent crime is far less of a problem now than it has been for decades.
  So your fearmongering isn't even supported well by your unsourced data.
- It’s probably naive of me, but I keep hoping that if we had better data on that, it would persuade at least some.
  The chances of that breakin are essentially zero. Even if it happens the chances of defending yourself are very low, and if you’ve properly secured your deadly weapon, pretty much zero. Meanwhile the chances of accidentally or in fear harming or killing someone inappropriately are much higher, and if the weapon is ready for defense, harming an innocent is even more likely.
  Can we put numbers to that and prove it to convince at least some? Or is it a religious topic?
  
  There is tons of data. People don't give a fuck about data that doesn't tell them what they want to hear.
  The number one killer of children in america is guns, the second is cars. Yet the anti-gun & anti-car dependency movements are struggling. Nobody gives a fuck about dead kids until they know them personally.
  
  Can we put numbers to that and prove it to convince at least some? Or is it a religious topic?
  You replied to a thread where I literally did
- Never happened to you so the scenario is invalid?
  I've had armed men break in my house on Christmas Eve. Fuck me, I had a bear wonder in my dog door, laughably on Christmas Eve again. Had a wolf hybrid come in another time. He was my buddy though, knew him.
  I hope you're never helpless and defenseless.
  
  Don't leave us hanging. Was the wolf hybrid on Christmas Eve too?
  
  Did you have a child die screaming and terrified on their classroom floor at the hands of a legal gun owner? Were you ever hunted in a mall by a teenage extremist with a semi-automatic rifle?
  Actually fuck it, did you even shoot the "armed men" or dog-sized bear, or did it turn out you didn't even need your guns in the bullshit you just made up.
  I hope you're never helpless and defenseless
  That's very clearly not true.
  
  I had a bear wonder in my dog door, laughably on Christmas Eve again.
  What was it wondering about?
  
  STATISTICALLY it's invalid. Even your examples are not applicable because it sounds like they didn't want to cause you any bodily harm, they just wanted a house to easily rob of Christmas presents. Same thing with the bear and wolf, it didn't come in there wanting to hurt you, it just wanted food.
  In both of these cases the best defense isn't shooting at an unidentified figure in the distance on an assumption that it's someone coming in with an intent to hurt you
I explained the Castle Doctrine to my daughter not too long ago. I just love explaining to her why this sort of thing happens in America.
- At least you don't have to explain to her that some people feel better living as a gender different from the one they were assigned at birth.
  
  You're right, because she already understands that.
- How is he being charged then? I don't get it.
  
  He killed her in her own home. You understand what castle doctrine is, right?
  
  It's her home. Castle doctrine only applies to people who have unlawfully entered your home. If you don't want to be legally shot by someone invoking the castle doctrine as a defense, don't unlawfully enter their home.
I hate when Missouri ends up in the news for stupid things. I promise, we aren't all idiots.
- Oh yeah? Name 3 things that is great about Missouri!
  No seriously, I'm asking because I have a friend who feels the same way, and I want to go, "Well, you still have (3 things here)" and cheer them up.
  
  The Italian food in STL is top notch, Lake of the Ozarks is fantastic, Mark Twain Ntl forest is gorgeous, the Katy trail linking towns and wineries from STL to Jefferson City is very special, and they never get wildfires or droughts :)
  
  Food and national parks. It's always food and national parks when you need to find something nice to say about an american state.
  
  Diversity, nature, laws.
  Missouri is a very relaxed state and I don't expect people who haven't lived there to understand how tame it actually is. Or they're city-folk basing all of their knowledge on what happens in St. Louis (a very shitty city.)
  Texas and Louisiana are the real shitty states. But people from Texas are delusional enough to think it holds a candle to Florida, so they aren't worth taking seriously.
Target id is very important. Weapon lights are important. This shit will haunt him for the rest of his life.
Bet he gets off with a warning after crying himself some Rittenhouse tears during the trial
Hey you know how I avoid never accidentally shooting someone? Not owning a gun. Gun makers hate this one trick but they can't stop you.
Considering we don't have any real clue as to the exact setting and situation... Yeah we know he thought there was an intruder... But... There's a lot we don't know. I'll wait for the details before judging
- Yeah I'm gonna go ahead and judge. Whatever the reasoning, the guy is at best a negligent idiot.
- Give us a scenario where he didn't have time to ask "who's there" before shooting his own mother.
  
  What if the burglar had shot first, huh? Check ma- oh wait. ... Nevermind.
- You know what's crazy? These tube things you can put in your pocket. They take a battery, you press a button and light comes out the front! Doesn't even stop until it hits something you maybe wanna see. It's nuts, I tell ya.
  
  Know what's crazier? They sell these things you speak of with mlok attachments for (and yes I know they're trying to ban handguards as "barrel shrouds") handguards for (and yes I know they don't like "assault rifles" either) your AR. And preventing this is literally the point of those.
  Not only are you right, there's legit solutions marketed for this lol.
  
  Or just don't own a gun because the chances of someone breaking into your house trying to harm you are unbelievably small.

155 comments