rule problem

We don't know what Biden is saying behind closed doors, but I'd be willing to bet my left nut that he's really angry at Netanyahu.

Bibi knows he would get full support to wipe out Gaza from Trump.

Biden is still trying to help within a certain frame by sending aid and asking Netanyahu to stop killing civilians. But that's only as much as he can do without completely pulling all funding, weapons and ammo. But there's risks associated to that. Especially with the threat of Iran in the middle East. He doesn't want to lose the support of one of the only allies, if not the only one, in the region.

The whole thing is very complex. There's lots of things at play here and it's all a bunch of shades of gray. Nothing is black and white.

However, there's only one thing that's really important here. Trump must lose. A Trump win would be devastating for world peace. I don't think Americans understand enough how much their country is a central pillar for world peace. The Gaza genocide could be nothing compared to the world wide cluster fuck we could be in if Trump wins.

So get your heads out of your asses, swallow your fucking pride and do the world a fucking favor by voting for the only candidate who still has a chance at not bringing a third, and possibly ultimate, world war.

For real - Trump would have sent whole squadrons of B-52s to carpet bomb Gaza without warning or allowance for any civilian evacuation.
I voted uncommitted in my primary on Tuesday. But I am sure as shit voting for the Democratic nominee, whoever it turns out to be, but realistically, it’s going to be Biden.
I understand precisely how central the US is to world stability at large. I’m not trying to claim the US is perfect, or unambiguously good - we have absolutely done a lot of shitty things over the years. I will assert that the world would likely be a lot more dangerous in a holistic sense if it weren’t for the US’s post-WW2 leadership in the western hemisphere.
- The US has deliberately destabilized the Middle East, South and Central America and Southern Asia. What you describe as holistic sense, is in fact the opposite. It is limited to a western perspective, that was culturally formed by almost a century of American supremacism, denial of non western perspectives in media and manufacturing consent propaganda in all levels of society..
  The Vietnam war was largely an effort to destabilize the region and prevent economic development by defending a brutal post colonial regime against its own people. It wasn even about communism, as the US was happy to help the genocidal Red Khmer in Cambodia.
  The US has toppled something like a dozen democratically elected governments in South and Central America and installed brutal, often fascist regimes, to maximise US company profits.
  The US destroyed Iraq, leading to the Insurgency and subsequently ISIS, to keep the Middle East at perpetual destablization after it started to become more stable in the early 2000s. The momentum was then used to destabilize Syria, Lebanon and Jordan. While claiming it was about "democracy" the US was happy to support the coup in Egypt after they kicked out Mubarak and held elections. The now installed Sisi is even worse than Mubarak.
  The final example should be Afghanistan, where 20 years of US occupation created nothing tangible and had the country fall back under Taliban control before the last US troops were out.
First thing trump would do is stop all Ukraine aid and give Putin the green light, second thing he'd do is withdraw from NATO.
- Exactly.
Yes all of this. And also, even if Palestine was in no way on the ballot in November, that doesn't mean it's not worth it to vote for the guy who is much better in all the ways that are on the ballot
- Why are you labeled as a bot?
He literally said today that he will never stop supporting and arming Israel.
I think a Trump win could mean at least soldiers being sent to Gaza and Ukraine being handed over to Putin in the name of "peace", which would fuel the territorial ambitions of other dictators. A lot of Hungarians are still mad about Treaty of Trianon, see Slovaks as a "fake nation created by the Habsburgs/Jews/communists", and this is only my country. China has it's own territorial ambitions, so are most other regimes.
I wish more people understood you some deescalate by screaming we're going to kick your ass and force you to stop. That is unless you all want the US fighting on a third front and are willing to eat that cost.
for the only candidate who still has a chance at not bringing a third, and possibly ultimate, world war.
Trump hast pulled out US troops from the Middle East. The US strategy for the Middle East and in particular the strategy of supporting Israel no matter what, revolves around perpetual destabilization of the Middle East to prevent the formation of a unified Arab bloc, that would become another global power.
I believe this to be highly implausible. The current US strategy is a danger to peace. Also both Saudi Arabia and Iran are now in the BRICS, so without US divisive interference diplomacy is actually possible in the region.
The whole "Trump will cause WW3" seems to me like a great consipiracy theory peddled to get some of the anti war vote, when the Democrats have been War Hawks since decades. Hillary Clinton campaigned in 2016 on the idea of going to war with Iran. There is many problems with Trump, but on the issue of global war i do not see, why he would be a bigger danger than the Democrats or other Republicans.
- Are you serious?
  Like someone else said, Trump would likely carpet bomb Gaza indiscriminately. This world increase hate against the US from the Middle East. And would probably encourage certain nations to act against the US.
  Trump is also pro Putin. He would let Putin run rampant and he would invade and take over all the old Soviet bloc nations and rule with an iron fist over them. This would put Europe at risk of war. And could potentially drag in NATO members. And have you forgotten that Putin is staunchly against LGBTQ and trans people? This would cause complete chaos.

Honestly the Trolley Problem is a perfect representation of this issue. All leftists in America are being asked to either personally hold a part in a genocide, or to personally abstain and allow greater horrors to be unleashed (including the genocide).

I feel like if it really mapped so cleanly onto the trolley problem, there wouldn't need to be 4 paragraphs of text included throughout the meme in an attempt to head off any arguments...
- The general election vote itself is the trolley problem, the paragraphs are detailing other solutions beyond simple voting to try and get out of the trolley problem.
- This just goes to show how convoluted Democrat "logic" becomes. They have to do all of these mental gymnastics instead of simply just voting for the Green Party. I'm so glad I'm not a Democrat.
Or vote for a better alternative. I urge everybody to check out Jill Stein or Cornel West. Either one would be a much better president than Trump or Biden.
- Unfortunately the lever only goes in two directions.

This post is the most accurate portrayal of the situation I think I've seen. I'd greatly question someone's moral compass if they liked Biden or approved of his presidency. Whenever this gets discussed, a bunch of status quo warriors pop out of wells to say "Trump is worse." Like, no shit.

Whenever this gets discussed, a bunch of status quo warriors pop out of wells to say "Trump is worse." Like, no shit.
Yes, but it still needs to be said every time because it would be detremental to leave even the tiniest chance for this (valid) critique of Biden to help Trump in the presidential election. That is why I think it's inportant to point out the obvious (Trump is way worse) because it is obvious to most but might not be to some and it would be a massive Issue if those people could take this discourse as reason not to vote for Biden in november.
- It seems to me in bad taste when someone's trying to discuss things like the Palestinian genocide or the immigrant concentration camps to then try to make it about a campaign. It effectively derails meaningful discussion about people actually suffering and dying via Biden's bad actions.
  Edit: But I do understand your pov. I just disagree with it. The best thing we can do to earn the votes of leftist and progressive voters is to at least make us feel heard. Lecturing us about Trump every time seems like a great way to alienate people.
The way they talk, Biden is the greatest thing ever.
I dont care that they have to vote for him to avoid Trump, that sucks but i get it.
But I cannot tolerate the maga cult levels of delusion they use to support him. Just admit hes shit and that all he offers is not being Trump, at least that shows a sign that maybe you would at least want to fix the system after the election.
- Yeah, it's really sus behavior. The people who are especially baffling are those who post long laundry lists of Biden's supposed accomplishments, as this in any way excuses things like committing genocide or imprisoning refugees in concentration camps.
  I'm sure John Wayne Gacy was a fine party clown, but this typically isn't considered to excuse his other endeavors.
  So yeah, I've been totally disillusioned of the idea that Democrats aren't cultlike. Both parties over here treating politics like a team sport, and meanwhile people are dying for no good reason at all.
thank you! fully agree. i’m slowly getting a handle on this rhetoric posting thing 🙃
- You're doing great!
  If you ever want to post something without dealing with all the bad takes and genocide deniers, come post on !libertyhub@lemmy.blahaj.zone
  I created it more or less to keep myself out of pointless arguments lol
Look he has fucked up the least out of all the modern presidents, so of course people like Biden, this holier-than-thou attitude is what gives online leftists a bad name
- Yeah because not committing genocide and building concentration camps is too high a bar for a person to clear /s

I just want to point out a thing said in this, that I have seen said hundreds of other times, which is not correct.

Due to the spoiler effect, a leftist vote for a third party candidate is essentially a vote for trump

This is incorrect, most charitably interpreted as an exaggeration, but it is said so often I think people are misunderstanding the spoiler effect.

The spoiler effect is real and it can suppress a victory of not-as-bad candidates if they have a popular opposition, but it is never as bad as "essentially voting for trump". It is equivalent to not voting at all, at worst.

And it is also a simplification of the situation to imply that the spoiler effect only affects democrats. There is a similar thing going on with conservative third parties.

eh, you're still effectively supporting trump by not voting for the party that can actually win instead.
It's not as bad as voting for trump, but it's still giving him a better shot at winning than he would have if you voted for biden
But if I'm a leftist, wouldn't I rather any candidate win over the furthest right one?
Obviously I'd want a leftist to be the president, but US politics doesn't work outside of the binary. I voted third party in 2016 and regretted it a lot.
- That's the basis of what the spoiler effect is and why it's a problem to consider, yeah.
  I just think it is better to be clear about how it works and what it means. Non-voting and third party votes being described as explicit support for trump has some troubling implications.
you know what, you are absolutely correct and i would have the same criticism about this post if i saw someone else post it.
i think my mind slipped when i was putting it together and typed words that meant more than i did. my fault.
ill make an effort to fix this.
It is equivalent to not voting at all, at worst.
And this only because some places won't count your votes if the difference isn't big enough to swing the election. This ought to be illegal, but it isn't.

Primary season is almost over, your chances of getting this done is narrowing.

excellent it’s almost over with 😅 hoping biden responds well

while it is not quite unanimous, the majority of experts agree that the ongoing violence fits the definition of genocide
more importantly, in what fucking world does calling one thing a genocide devalue other genocides? that is such a disgusting take i see everywhere and it’s nauseating.
- “Biden is hardly better”. What an idiotic take. A flaming bag of crap is terrible, and your opinion here is “hardly any better”.
its undoubtedly genocide. and besides that, project 2025 and the threat of conservative fascism is still very real
- Conservative fascism and Trump's foreign policy would kill a hell of a lot more people than 50k in Gaza, but more of them too.
Terrible take. Calling something what it is in no way devalues the word. This is genocide.

The worst part is that the US supporting Israel is a huge liability at this point for everyone involved. A regional war would harm all parties. There might not be be an Israel if they don't stop their genocide. All US investment will have gone to waste and the entire region will be devastated. Your enemies can't win if everyone is destroyed 💀

Godfuckingdamnit. This is syntax class all over again, isn't it? It's damn obvious, but there's some people who did actually need to solve the trolley problem, and still didn't.

i’m confused what are you saying
- My experience with syntax is that we wasted 10s of hours learning concepts that we pick up naturally, that no one would ever need to analyze it with this much detail just to be able to properly speak their native tongue (Spanish in my case). As it turns out, there's plenty of people who have been speaking Spanish their whole lives and still manage to fail somehow.
  The original trolley problem is extremely simple and no person should be dumb enough not to save the maximum amount of people. And yet there's plenty of people who feel icky at the prospect of having to take a decision. And yet.

Not pictured: a giant hand holding the lever flipper in place, forcing their participation and complicity in one major candidates genocidal intentions over another.

There’s always time to walk away from omelas.

To accuse others of being complicit for voting you first have to admit voting works in some way.
- I reject the premise that voting necessarily works, but even for a person who is operating under the assumption it does, no one is forcing you to choose between the two bad candidates.
  There are third parties, a person can leave a position blank, and even if a person believes that voting works, they could still simply choose not to engage with that system and do something else instead.
  You literally don’t have to be complicit.

More Trump propaganda on Lemmy I see.

What do you guys think about Robert F Kennedy Jr?

antivax transphobic liar
- Do you have link to something where he is transphobic? I'm curious
Have you looked into him at all?
- Yes.
  Source: I'm his dentist
- Not that much, but what i've seen wasn't that bad.
Schizo
Sure looks antisemitic. For example:
Saying Jews are immune to COVID
The "14/88" tweet, which appears to be two dogwhistles in one

"Spoiler effect" is so dumb. like oh, i'm the bad guy for voting for the candidate that you agree is better than the one you voted for??

give me a break. i'm literally not the one to blame for that.

i agree the spoiler effect is dumb. and you’re not the bad guy, the system is.
there are solutions to the spoiler effect problem but when seeking to save lives it tends to help to work within the bounds of the (broken) system.

Voting for a "lesser evil" is still voting for evil.
- Burying your head in the sand doesn't make time stop. One of the two options will happen, whether you try to mitigate evil or not.
- Unless your picking up a gun and taking both options out / overthrowing the entire government, not voting at all is saying your okay with either outcome, not that your not okay with either.
- Doesn't matter unless voting works

did you not see the new rule yesterday https://beehaw.org/post/12350442

i did so please let me post my political shitposts in peace please :)
- Some political shitposts, as a treat if you will

Over 100 comments and nobody mentioned Biden spoke approvingly of a union leader during the SOTU

And even if Trump and Biden were identical in Gaza, there's also ~20 million LGBT people in the United States and a domestic genocide would actually be bad too (even if Americans are culturally imperialist or something).