Judge fines Trump more than $300 million, bars from running businesses in New York for three years
Judge fines Trump more than $300 million, bars from running businesses in N.Y. for three years
Three years? Are you shitting me?
For real, look at this shit
"Their complete lack of contrition and remorse borders on pathological. They are accused only of inflating asset values to make more money. The documents prove this over and over again. This is a venial sin, not a mortal sin. Defendants did not commit murder or arson. They did not rob a bank at gunpoint.
"Some will rob you with a six-gun, and some with a fountain pen," really great to see how far we've come since that was written
But I digress,
Donald Trump is not Bernard Madoff. Yet, defendants are incapable of admitting the error of their ways," Engoron wrote.
"Defendants’ refusal to admit error — indeed, to continue it, according to the Independent Monitor — constrains this Court to conclude that they will engage in it going forward unless judicially restrained," he added.
The ruling also bars the Trump sons — who've been running the company since their father went to the White House — “from serving as an officer or director of any New York corporation or other legal entity in New York for a period of two years.”
So, yeah, I guess the headline was shitting you, because at best it's going to be effectively a two year ban for this pack of pathologically remorseless creeps who the judge admits are definitely going to reoffend. Ain't justice grand? /s
Yeah, I really don't think people should be celebrating this. This is practically giving people permission to cheat on their taxes considering they still came out on top in terms of profiting overall.
Small New York business should protest and / or sue the courts for not fairly applying justice or something. I’m not a lawyer.
It could be a lifetime sentence!
Inshallah
That's what blows me away. It's not 3 years for being innocent, bc the judge assigned it for being GUILTY!?
That was my thought. The money is a lot and cool, but we know he’ll never have to really pay it. It won’t change a thing wrt how he’s currently living his life. He could set up a GoFundMe and people would throw money at it like Bannon’s border wall scheme.
The business thing though - with our luck that fucker will still be alive in 3 years, running for president again or some shit, and open up another business in NYC just to spite this and do the fraud all over again.
That's the death of the company. Nobody in his family can run this business now. It'll continue on with someone they have hired to manage it, but the judge will keep his eye on them with the monitor for a very long time.
Why is it that people who commit fraud for less than $10,000 get jail for decades but commit fraud for millions and you only lose your ability to do business in a single state for 3 years?
so that's nearly a HALF BILLION DOLLARS in fines owed to multiple entities by the (alleged) billionaire who is also the leading candidate to one political party.
now would be a real good time for that party to remove themselves from trump. because if they stay hitched to that wagon, they ain't winning shit. but the hilarious thing is that if they get behind haley right now they'll have an even shot at winning but she's so unappealing to the base they'll never do it.
it's great. 🤣😆🤣😆
I get denied from jobs with security clearances because I have student loans debt / financial hardships when they run background checks. The president has the ability to declassify any documents... And he has been on recording sharing classified documents with non clearanced individuals.
Security must only impact peasants
It has to be more than student debt. Like being severely delinquent. It having declared bankruptcy. Or being in such debt that you'd be at risk of bribery.
They only care about your risk to be bribed or blackmailed and that you are honest.
Security clearance derives from Executive power in the first place. He got it by default.
Don't let him have that power again.
Yeah no way is the base going to support a woman and especially one who doesn't kiss the ring.
I think Haley hasn't been tested yet. She might be an utter disaster with the general electorate (remember DeSantis was also speculatively popular in a general election before people actually looked at him).
These lawsuits have actually made him more popular with his base.
his base which is a very loud minority of the people aka not the person who win you elections. tell the low information voter in september and october that trump owes $88 million to one person for sexually assaulting her and lying about it and $450 million for cheating on his taxes and lying to get bank loans and don't be shocked if one of the red wall states flips in november.
The bulk of the fines are assigned to the three Trumps, Weisselberg, etc "jointly and severally".
I have no idea what that means for their individual liability, but it's not exclusively on Trump's shoulders.
I saw here that the fines are $4 million for each of the two offspring, and $1 million for Weisselberg:
https://www.reuters.com/legal/judge-set-rule-trumps-370-million-civil-fraud-case-2024-02-16
What's even funnier is initially the investigators were only looking to get $250M. During the case after a monitor was appointed, the Trump Org. started shuffling money around and they went after more money due to those actions.
trump's entire 2016 presidential campaign cost $340 million.
trump's 2020 campaign more then doubled that amount to spend $774 million(which, with his loss conveniently amounted to nothing).
This judgment, coupled with prejudgment interest, amounts to over $450 million.
And being barred from conducting business in New York is one heck of a cherry on top, although like many of you, I would have liked to see a lifetime ban.
His sons are also not allowed to have any role in Trump organizations in New York for 2 years and owe four million each.
There's trumps $83 million ruling for his rape and defamation of carroll as well.
Congrats, Letitia James and judge engoron.
Can't wait for the rest of these trials to get going.
Luckily, he's already old and obese, so these three years are much more of a loss than say, being banned for 3 years at 25 years old. With any luck he won't be around much longer anyways.
I hope so
These evil old bastards take longer than you think to kick the bucket. Hell, Kissinger made it to 100.
I would have liked to see a lifetime ban
Three years could be, dude does not look healthy.
He's looked too unhealthy for too long, I hope something internal collapses.
But if you grow weed you to prison for life. How are people ok with this?
Because growing weed is a criminal offense. It probably shouldn't be, but that's how the law works.
What happened here was not a criminal case. So given the limited available punishment this is pretty severe. I mean does the idiot even have 300 million dollars?
I guess the question is, why wasn't he charged criminally for fraud?
That's not common anymore.
That's not true, people regularly get a decade in jail for growing cannabis in prohibition states
You can literally beat your wife nearly to death and get less time
The only reason it is kept illegal is to keep our prisons filled
People are still in prison for it though.
That's gonna put a dent in the ol' reelection funds.
I can hear the donation emails and text messages getting typed up as we speak. You know them suckers are gonna pay too!
People living paycheck to paycheck donating money to a millionaire because of ideology 🥰
I'm sure not paying it will leave him with plenty of rubles.
The judge also ordered that they pay substantial interest, pushing the penalty for the former president to $450 million, according to the attorney general, Letitia James.
Guy is gonna be 81 by the time the 3 year ban lifts, it's close enough to a lifetime ban.
His kids will take over. The trump infamy will carry on.
The kids are banned for 2 years but yeah it's worth their while to wait it out and get back to it.
It's great something has happened, but let's be honest if one of us peasants did the shit he did we'd be in jail for the rest of our lives.
So is this another OJ Simpson-type situation? Don't go to jail for what you did, just pay a fine for what you did? So no criminal consequences, but some civil ones for the same offense? I mean fraud must be a criminal offense in the US too, right?
This case involved charges of fraud made against Trump's company by the State of New York. This was a civil case, not a criminal case. The consequences were not supposed to be criminal.
The defamation lawsuits brought by E. Jean Carroll were also civil cases. She was not charging Trump with the crime of raping her many years ago; She was suing him (twice) for lying about whether he raped her many years ago. (She won both times.)
I think I get where you are coming from, though. When a person is rich enough to pay the fine, and also shameless enough to revel in the infamy of being found liable in a civil dispute, it can seem like that person doesn't end up suffering any significant consequence for their actions at all.
$355M is a lot of money. Add in the $83M owed to Carroll and these recent fines top $400M, which is an estimated amount of Trump's liquid assets. Trump is now likely running out of cash-on-hand, which could explain his recent takeover of the Republican National Committee -- the GOP's fundraising (and fund-spending) organization.
Criminal consequences come from criminal cases. Trump has invested most of his legal defense against the criminal cases he is facing. Pending criminal cases involving Trump include:
1.) A RICO ("Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations") case charged by the State of Georgia, against Trump and several others who allegedly conspired to steal the state's 16 electoral votes, including by having the President call (Republican) Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger and ask him to "find 11,780 votes" for him. Four people in that case have already accepted a plea deal. This case is currently delayed by a motion to disqualify the DA because she had a romantic relationship with a lawyer her office hired to help prosecute the case.
2.) A federal case against Trump for retaining classified documents. A year or so ago, it was found that former President Trump and former VP Mike Pence had kept classified documents after they left office, and that when Joe Biden left the office of VP in 2017, he also kept some classified documents. Both Pence and Biden complied with federal investigation and surrendered the documents immediately when asked. Unlike Pence and Biden, Trump did not comply with federal investigation, and instead took action to conceal the classified documents in his possession. This case is being heard in a Florida courtroom, because Trump was storing these stolen national secrets in a spare bathroom at Mar-A-Lago. The judge is a Trump appointee, and has demonstrated a tendency to rule in Trumps favor whenever she can, but if she shows too much bias she may get taken off the case.
3.) A federal case against Trump for his involvement in the insurrectionist attempt to disrupt the electoral vote count in congress on January 6, 2021. Trump has been indicted on four charges in this case: "conspiracy to defraud the United States; conspiracy to obstruct an official proceeding; obstruction of and attempt to obstruct an official proceeding; and conspiracy against rights." Trump's defense has been that he has "absolute immunity" for any actions he took while serving as President. This claim of immunity has been denied and appealed multiple times. Trump has now asked the SCOTUS to hear his appeal, but they haven't said if they will yet. Until they do, that case is on hold, but there's no one else to appeal to higher than them. If SCOTUS chooses not to hear Trump's immunity appeal, the lower court's denial of it will stand and the case will go forward.
Thank you very much for the explanation and the great summary. 👍
Could you do these as regular posts? It was the perfect length and relevance to help me feel up to speed on all the cases!
It's not a criminal lawsuit I don't think jail was in the cards.
Yes, but why no criminal lawsuit as well? Defrauding people for hunderts of millions of dollars sure sounds like a offence to me that could/should lead to criminal charges. I don't get how this would not be obvious now that a judge already has found Trump guilty in a civil lawsuit.
If he doesnt pay is jail on the cards?
So much winning!! /s
I like that last part where he's barred from running businesses in NY.
Will he actually have to pay this in any realistic time frame?
Or does he get to lodge a Supreme Court appeal that takes another 5 years to get a decision?
My understanding is that it must be paid in 30 days or, if he wants to appeal it, put into a trust or something. Effectively, removing his access to the money until the appeal is resolved.
this is a state court decision. unless there is a federal issue to base an appeal on, scotus can't save him.
Yep. Notably, this specific law was designed for people exactly like Trump.
Oh fuck yes.
While true, this is just a New York Supreme Court decision. He can still appeal to the Appellate Division then to the New York Court of Appeals. I can't imagine he'll get it turned over, but there's a chance the amount might be lowered or something.
There's no question: that is basically a certainty at this point.
Wow. He lucked out big time by not having the businesses claimed and broken up. That sucks.
A fraud on me.
HAHAHAHAHA
Like that pillow guy - "did a cancel culture on me." LOL
Isn't he worth billions? I know that's what he likes to tell people. So this should be no problem, right? Just a small fee.
But it can be paid by a PAC.
So basically the same thing.
His entire campaign raised ~$330M in 2016 election cycle. At the very least it's a massive hit to the funds they have to spend.
Aren't they broke now? He already spent it on legal fees up to this point.
I would rather he pay with campaign funds. I don't care how rich he is, I want him to fail in the 2024 election.