Colorado Ballot: Supreme Court Justices Appear Skeptical of Arguments to Kick Trump Off State Ballots
Colorado Ballot: Supreme Court Justices Appear Skeptical of Arguments to Kick Trump Off State Ballots
What happened to State's Rights?
Those are only for Republican-leaning states.
States should decide who can run for President?
I think it was more a rhetorical point about how Feiblicans insist issues dear to them should be decided by each state, but are happy to forget about that when they want a certain policy nationally.
Anyway, yes. I thought states were free to choose how to run their own elections.
It's because trump hasn't been found guilty of insurrection yet.
That's likely to take longer than next election, which is one of many reasons our justice system moves too slow.
Trump's main argument, though he doesn't admit to insurrection, is that he isn't technically an officer under the united states and so technically the 14th amendment doesn't apply.
He could be arguing, strongly, that he didn't commit insurrection but he's not. His lawyer basically said, "yeah, we don't admit that but it doesn't matter because of this technicality".
Its a super weak argument. Trumps lawyer gave the scotus very little reason to find in his favor other than, "if you find against us there will be a tit for tat among the states leading to chaos" which, yeah, but that's not a legal argument.
That's like sovereign citizen level bullshit. Crazy they're going with that.
Yeah, but he hasn't been found guilty yet ...
He obviously should, and probably will.
But it hasn't happened yet, and likely won't before the election.
Which is why I'm complaining about how long our justice system takes for the rich, they can stall
No. It isn't. If you read the summaries I saw from today, it says the Justices didn't even discuss whether he participated in insurrection. (Ed. nor anything about conviction. What have you been reading??)
Also if you look at the original Colorado ruling, it lays out in pretty great detail, based on the evidence presented, that Trump did, in fact, participate in insurrection.
"Colorado laid out in detail why someone shouldn't be on their ballot...." So, by allowing this, any state in the country can do this...."Texas laid out in detail why Biden shouldn't be on their ballot, therefore, he's not..."
It doesn't matter if Colorado lays out that Trump is an insurrectionist.
It doesn't matter if Trump in reality is an insurrectionist
It matters if he has been found guilty of insurrection, or an insurrection-like offense, through a final judgment on the merits
A guilt verdict for insurrection was not required for any of the other people made ineligible by the 14th Amendment, why does a different standard apply only to Donald Trump?
Couy Griffin, for a recent example, was removed from office in 2022 based on the 14th Amendment; the only thing he was found guilt of was trespassing. And after the 14th Amendment was ratified thousand of Confederates who had been convicted of nothing filed amnesty requests with Congress to remove their disqualification under the 14th Amendment because it was well understood that a conviction wasn't required.
14A arguments have been used to DQ people many times in the past without court proceedings.
The Supreme Court is obviously going to put Trump on the ballot, but we shouldn't pretend they have any justified reason to do so.
Let's just ignore loopholes because Republicans would never use the same one twice!
/s
If we fight fascism with inaction, I do t like our chances.
We need to do shit not just say "it would happen anyways, nothing we can do"
Are you referring to 14A arguments outside of sec. 3? I ask because section 3 has only been applied to one non-confederate
Section 3 has been invoked since the Confederate issue was settled, but just once.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/history/2021/01/11/14th-amendment-trump-insurrection-impeachment/
In a sense, yes. To be precise, the blame for this lies solely with inept, cowardly Merrick Garland, who took two and a half years to begin doing anything at all to hold Trump accountable. If not for Garland’s incomprehensible delays, the matter would have been settled well before ‘24 election season.
We all knew it wasn’t going to happen, right? Like no one actually believed he would be kept off the ballots, did they?
More of an outside chance. The Supreme Court might decide that saving the Republican party is more important than helping Trump.
Trump being kicked off the ballot wouldn't save the Republican Party at all. It's likely Trump would turn his ire toward them more than ever, and many of his voters would stay home
God forbid we have more than ONE political party in power right? I mean, hey, let's just let Democrats decide and control everything!
Breaking: Constitution Ruled Unconstitutional
Oh look the fully predictable result has occurred.
Not sure why everyone around here thinks this okay to do because of "state rights." The argument makes sense...if a state can decide, according to their own definition, that someone shouldn't be allowed to be on a Presidential ballot, it will open the doors to chaos...
There's a long history of states deciding to keep people off the ballot for other reasons the Constitution disqualifies them, such as not being 35. It's also pretty common for minor-party candidates to only qualify for the ballot in some states.
None of this has caused chaos.
You're talking about enforcing certain laws to keep them off, that's different than what Colorado's doing. Colorado is deciding on their own that Trump is guilty of something, and therefore, must be kept off the ballot. Our voting system can't allow states to determine who's guilty of what, and who to keep of the ballots, simply based on opinion.
I mean, think of the chaotic implications of letting states determine who is eligible to be on their ballots by following a federal standard laid out in the constitution.
Dogs and cats living together! Mass hysteria!
And if leading a riot into the capital to overturn an election counts as insurrection, then anyone could be taken off the ballet!
I mean, you could exclude like half the Republican caucus. Imagine what a bunch of fresh blood would do to the place!
The problem is that Republicans will obviously abuse this. They've wrecked our justice system across all levels.
This is always such a spurious argument; Republicans will do what they're going to do regardless of precedent. There was no precedent for their attempt to throw out the results of last election but they did it anyway.
Republicans straight up dont give a flying fuck about rules, laws or precedent. They will always do whatever the fuck they want to do. Damn the consequences.
Ok I mean we can't have no laws because some leader is corrupt.
⬆️ This is the correct answer.
If they allow individual states to make their own "objective" legal determinations regarding what is or is not an insurrection then you will never have a democratic candidate on the ballot in any Republican majority controlled state ever again. They will take that as carte blanche authority to say that every single Democrat is a traitor to the Constitution, and is unfit to hold office.
Edit: I am following up because I realize what a contentious and controversial position this is, and I agree. However, the important thing to note is that this is the exact logic that was repeatedly broached by the Supreme Court itself. We can argue ad nauseum about the legitimacy of that body, but the bottom line is this: they are not going to allow Donald Trump to be unilaterally removed from the ballot. They are afraid of the ramifications of that decision, that much is clear. So, regardless of anyone's personal feelings on the matter you need to make peace with the fact that the Supreme Court is going to all but destroy the protections of Article 3 of the 14th Amendment. That is just the reality, and that means it is more important than ever that we make sure Donald Trump does not make it back to the White House. If he does, that is going to be the beginning of the end of the United States for the foreseeable future.
The worst case scenario that nobody wants to talk about is Donald Trump being able to pack additional justices onto the Supreme Court that are in their late 40's who will be on the bench for another 40 years, and guarantee the further erosion of civil rights in a way that will permanently destroy any chance for reform for the rest of your fucking life. This is not a game, this is not a drill, the Supreme Court has made it clear they are not going to do the right thing. The only remaining choice is collective action through voting or mass civil disobedience. Get ready....
Are you serious? So, every state in the country should just throw out whoever they wan.t...allowing their residents to ONLY vote for the people that the state government wants them too? Sounds very....communist.
Just so you know, that's not what communist means.